RE: Oracle Untested Infuriator

Pete,

It may be that some other group at Oracle besides the OUI team is responsible for the absurd requirement that in order to add the JDBC OCI drivers (4 files) to a 9.2.0.3 ORACLE_HOME, you must allow the OUI to downgrade Oracle Server software to 9.2.0.1. Support actually came up with the clever idea of choosing a client install when adding the drivers, and then OUI only downgrades libclntsh.so and associated stuff, so only they need to be re-upgraded.

The main probelm though is that the installer is pretty much unusable unless you are within the same LAN as the server host. That is an OUI arcitectural problem. The requirement for an X server, even for an unattended install, is unsustainable if Oracle expects real DBAs to take the product seriously. The installer cannot be in the business of screen-painting across the network. I can't even believe the idea got past an initial review, much less persisted for several years.

--
Jeremiah Wilton
http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton

On Tue, 20 May 2003, Pete Sharman wrote:



> So tell us how you really feel, Jeremiah!  :)

> 

> Seriously, many of the problems you list are actually not OUI problems, but

> install (the way the install was built, and the dependencies of products

> being installed). But customers don't separate these (and they should not

> have to),  and OUI gets blamed for it.  Fortunately the install and OUI

> teams are now much closer (same team), as they should be, and hopefully that

> will help drive requirements from install (of Server and iAS) into OUI and

> vice versa.

> 

> Yeah, I know, the moon is made of green cheese, too ...   :)

> 

> Pete

> "Controlling developers is like herding cats."

> Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook

> "Oh no, it's not.  It's much harder than that!"

> Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA

>  

> 

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> Wilton

> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 10:27 AM

> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

> 

> 

> Speaking of GUIs, lets hear it for the most horrendous GUI of them all, the

> nearly unusable Oracle Universal Installer.

> 

> Although I avoid it religiously, opting to copy around tarballs instead, I

> still occasionally must run the installer on my master installation.

> 

> Well, the master copy is in Seattle and I am in London.  Why?  because you

> have to have a dedicated host not running any instances for use as the

> master install location, due to the fact that the ORACLE_HOME is hardcoded

> into all sorts of files, and the thing refuses to run if there is an

> instance running, even if it isn't going to touch anything that instance is

> using.  If you install in an alternate directory of one of your normal

> servers, you can never upgrade the thing.

> 

> Although our WAN is fairly fast, it is no match for the OUI.  You click a

> button, and 60 seconds later it visibly depresses.  Then you wait for the

> results.  Today I discovered that if you install 9.2 and patch it up to

> 9.2.0.3, you can't add components like JDBC drivers etc. from media without

> having the OUI automatically DOWNGRADE the Oracle Server binaries in the

> process.  Sure you can copy them into place manually, but they won't get

> picked up in future upgrades with the...  OUI!!

> 

> Combine that with incorrect instructions, faulty readme files and just flat

> out non-QA'd software (oops forgot to make that file executable in the

> distribution!), and you get one frustrated DBA.

> 

> All I can say is the OUI is the biggest piece of crap Oracle has ever

> produced (maybe I am forgetting Oracle Mail).  I can't believe they haven't

> rearchitected it since its fateful inception and the demise of orainst.  Who

> wouldn't give up a finger to have character mode orainst back?

> 

> If I wrote a reliable character mode perl script that does the same thing as

> runInstaller, does anyone think I could sell it?

> 

> The OUI has blown so much of my time this week.  Companies should start

> asking Oracle for license fee discounts equal to the time their expensive

> DBAs flush down the toilet running the OUI and screwing with broken Oracle

> software (We have over 10 one-off patches on top of 9.2.0.3).

> 

> I hereby declare that I will use all of my powers to get the present OUI

> scrapped in time for 10i.  Stay tuned for updates.

> 

> --

> Jeremiah Wilton

> http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton

> 

> On Tue, 20 May 2003, Freeman Robert - IL wrote:

> 

> > As for me and my house, we will choose manual migrations over GUI any 

> > time.

> > 

> > 

> > Robert 12:23-24

> > 

> > -----Original Message-----

> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

> > Sent: 5/20/2003 9:31 AM

> > 

> > No problem, you are more than welcome and for your sarcasm, when 

> > you've reached the point where you have done oracle work for 12 

> > years(yes clear back to BEFORE MIGRATION ASSISTANTS EXISTED), you can 

> > feel free to verbally abuse me, in the mean time:

> > 

> > BYTE ME.

> > 

> > joe

> > 

> > 

> > 

> > >Thanx a lot for your valuable info' JOE.

> > >

> > >Regards,

> > >Jp.

> > 

> > 19-5-2003 12:27:52, Joe Testa <jtesta_at_dmc-it.com> wrote:

> > 

> > 

> > >>all migrations/upgrades are done manually,  i've never trusted them

> > 

> > dang

> > 

> > >>gui tools

> > >>joe

> > 

> > Joseph S Testa

> > Chief Technology Officer

> > Data Management Consulting

> > p: 614-791-9000

> > f: 614-791-9001

> > --

> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net

> > -- 

> > Author: Joseph S Testa

> >   INET: jtesta_at_dmc-it.com

> > 

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> -- 

> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net

> -- 

> Author: Jeremiah Wilton

>   INET: jwilton_at_speakeasy.net

> 

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> 

> -- 

> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net

> -- 

> Author: Pete Sharman

>   INET: peter.sharman_at_oracle.com

> 

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> 


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Jeremiah Wilton
  INET: jwilton_at_speakeasy.net

Fat City Network Services    -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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