RE: Oracle Untested Infuriator

|Pete,

|It may be that some other group at Oracle besides the OUI team is
|responsible for the absurd requirement that in order to add the JDBC
|OCI drivers (4 files) to a 9.2.0.3 ORACLE_HOME, you must allow the OUI
|to downgrade Oracle Server software to 9.2.0.1. Support actually came
|up with the clever idea of choosing a client install when adding the
|drivers, and then OUI only downgrades libclntsh.so and associated
|stuff, so only they need to be re-upgraded.

|The main probelm though is that the installer is pretty much unusable
|unless you are within the same LAN as the server host. That is an OUI
|arcitectural problem. The requirement for an X server, even for an
|unattended install, is unsustainable if Oracle expects real DBAs to
|take the product seriously. The installer cannot be in the business
|of screen-painting across the network. I can't even believe the idea
|got past an initial review, much less persisted for several years.

Jeremiah - ditto. I am forced to use it across a WAN but fortunately (at least for now) through a pretty big pipe. If I loose my "big pipe" I may start losing the argument that I can effectively administer remote systems (if you catch my drift). Give me back the command line via orainst!!!

Kip

|--
|Jeremiah Wilton
|http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton

|On Tue, 20 May 2003, Pete Sharman wrote:

|> So tell us how you really feel, Jeremiah! :)
|>
|> Seriously, many of the problems you list are actually not OUI problems, but
|> install (the way the install was built, and the dependencies of products
|> being installed). But customers don't separate these (and they should not
|> have to), and OUI gets blamed for it. Fortunately the install and OUI
|> teams are now much closer (same team), as they should be, and hopefully that
|> will help drive requirements from install (of Server and iAS) into OUI and
|> vice versa.
|>
|> Yeah, I know, the moon is made of green cheese, too ... :)
|>
|> Pete
|> "Controlling developers is like herding cats."
|> Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook
|> "Oh no, it's not. It's much harder than that!"
|> Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA
|>
|>
|>
|> -----Original Message-----
|> Wilton
|> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 10:27 AM
|> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
|>
|>
|> Speaking of GUIs, lets hear it for the most horrendous GUI of them all, the
|> nearly unusable Oracle Universal Installer.
|>
|> Although I avoid it religiously, opting to copy around tarballs instead, I
|> still occasionally must run the installer on my master installation.
|>
|> Well, the master copy is in Seattle and I am in London. Why? because you
|> have to have a dedicated host not running any instances for use as the
|> master install location, due to the fact that the ORACLE_HOME is hardcoded
|> into all sorts of files, and the thing refuses to run if there is an
|> instance running, even if it isn't going to touch anything that instance is
|> using. If you install in an alternate directory of one of your normal
|> servers, you can never upgrade the thing.
|>
|> Although our WAN is fairly fast, it is no match for the OUI. You click a
|> button, and 60 seconds later it visibly depresses. Then you wait for the
|> results. Today I discovered that if you install 9.2 and patch it up to
|> 9.2.0.3, you can't add components like JDBC drivers etc. from media without
|> having the OUI automatically DOWNGRADE the Oracle Server binaries in the
|> process. Sure you can copy them into place manually, but they won't get
|> picked up in future upgrades with the... OUI!!
|>
|> Combine that with incorrect instructions, faulty readme files and just flat
|> out non-QA'd software (oops forgot to make that file executable in the
|> distribution!), and you get one frustrated DBA.
|>
|> All I can say is the OUI is the biggest piece of crap Oracle has ever
|> produced (maybe I am forgetting Oracle Mail). I can't believe they haven't
|> rearchitected it since its fateful inception and the demise of orainst. Who
|> wouldn't give up a finger to have character mode orainst back?
|>
|> If I wrote a reliable character mode perl script that does the same thing as
|> runInstaller, does anyone think I could sell it?
|>
|> The OUI has blown so much of my time this week. Companies should start
|> asking Oracle for license fee discounts equal to the time their expensive
|> DBAs flush down the toilet running the OUI and screwing with broken Oracle
|> software (We have over 10 one-off patches on top of 9.2.0.3).
|>
|> I hereby declare that I will use all of my powers to get the present OUI
|> scrapped in time for 10i. Stay tuned for updates.
|>
|> --
|> Jeremiah Wilton
|> http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton
|>
|> On Tue, 20 May 2003, Freeman Robert - IL wrote:
|>
|> > As for me and my house, we will choose manual migrations over GUI any
|> > time.
|> >
|> >
|> > Robert 12:23-24
|> >
|> > -----Original Message-----
|> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
|> > Sent: 5/20/2003 9:31 AM
|> >
|> > No problem, you are more than welcome and for your sarcasm, when
|> > you've reached the point where you have done oracle work for 12
|> > years(yes clear back to BEFORE MIGRATION ASSISTANTS EXISTED), you can
|> > feel free to verbally abuse me, in the mean time:
|> >
|> > BYTE ME.
|> >
|> > joe
|> >
|> >
|> >
|> > >Thanx a lot for your valuable info' JOE.
|> > >
|> > >Regards,
|> > >Jp.
|> >
|> > 19-5-2003 12:27:52, Joe Testa <jtesta_at_dmc-it.com> wrote:
|> >
|> >
|> > >>all migrations/upgrades are done manually, i've never trusted them
|> >
|> > dang
|> >
|> > >>gui tools
|> > >>joe
|> >
|> > Joseph S Testa
|> > Chief Technology Officer
|> > Data Management Consulting
|> > p: 614-791-9000
|> > f: 614-791-9001
|> > --
|> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
|> > --
|> > Author: Joseph S Testa
|> > INET: jtesta_at_dmc-it.com
|> >
|> > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
|> > San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
|> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
|> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
|> > to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
|> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the
|> > name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send
|> > the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
|> > --
|> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
|> > --
|> > Author: Freeman Robert - IL
|> > INET: FREEMANR_at_tusc.com
|> >
|> > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
|> > San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
|> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
|> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
|> > to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
|> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the
|> > name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send
|> > the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
|> >
|> >
|>
|> --
|> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
|> --
|> Author: Jeremiah Wilton
|> INET: jwilton_at_speakeasy.net
|>
|> Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
|> San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
|> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
|> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
|> to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the
|> message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of
|> mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP
|> command for other information (like subscribing).
|>
|>
|> --
|> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
|> --
|> Author: Pete Sharman
|> INET: peter.sharman_at_oracle.com
|>
|> Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
|> San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
|> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
|> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
|> to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
|> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
|> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
|> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
|>
|>

|--
|Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
|--
|Author: Jeremiah Wilton
| INET: jwilton_at_speakeasy.net

|Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
|San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
|---------------------------------------------------------------------
|To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
|to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
|the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
|(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
|also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: 
  INET: Kip.Bryant_at_Vishay.com

Fat City Network Services    -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
San Diego, California        -- Mailing list and web hosting services
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).