Re: Good DBA vs. Bad DBA

I think that we can summarize this:

Management is a profession by itself.
A good technical person need to learn a new profession to become a good manager.

Yechiel Adar
Mehish
----- Original Message -----
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 5:04 PM

> Well, well, well I think we should also not forget that some people
> are good when dealing with people by nature. My previous Manager was
> not good at all when dealing with people. Well I know business is
> business. He had a technical background, but very bad on managing
> people, had favourates, you name them. So unfortunately for him there
> was a merger with another company and he missed the gravy train. The
> new manager is good because he knows how to handle the team.
> There are lots of people I know that don't really have technical
> skills but they are excellent when coming to managing people. It does
> not necessarily mean that when you are technically skilled you can't
> manage people. There is a guys I know from another Company, the man is
> good, you can't fool him around, technically or management wise. He is
> is just out of this World. He has got an extensive Technical
> background plus Management skills. It's all about whether you've got
> them or not. You can't socialize with ya Team members and you only
> drink Coffee and go home, nothing will be okay.
>
> On Wed, 08 May 2002 05:53:23 -0800 Robertson Lee - lerobe
> (lerobe_at_acxiom.co.uk) wrote:
>
> >Yep, I definitely fall into the category you mention re. buy drinks
> after
> >work (sometimes !!!), leave work early when necessary etc. but also
> would at
> >the end of a good client win/tough time at work really push the boat
> out and
> >go for the full hog (meal/drinks etc.) It created a great deal of
> mutual
> >respect and also from time to time team members would organise the
> reverse
> >where I didn't have to put my hand in my pocket at all.
> >Christmases were traditionally where the manager would give everyone
> in the
> >team something like a bottle of wine/small present each to say thanks
> for
> >the hard work over the year. This gradually worked the other way when
> I
> >started receiving little gifts from the guys to say thankyou for
> helping
> >them through the year. A happy time with a great bunch of people.
> >
> >Treat as you wish to be treated is a fine "acxiom" (if you forgive
> the pun
> >!!).
> >
> >Lee
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >[mailto:Rachel_Carmichael_at_Sonymusic.com]
> >Sent: 08 May 2002 14:33
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >see? I TOLD you all I wasn't a geek :)
> >
> >I think management style has a lot to do with it as well. Style
> breaks down
> >into:
> >
> >managing people
> >managing projects
> >
> >in the first case, you take into consideration the people themselves,
> what
> >motivates them, what sort of "carrot" you can dangle in front of
> them, and
> >treat
> >them as you would want to be treated (time off if needed, "go home
> early,
> >it's
> >not busy", the occasional "boss buys the drinks after work")
> >
> >In the second case, you drive work by deadlines, do not consider that
> the
> >people
> >who work for you might have a life and associated problems and needs
> outside
> >of
> >work.
> >
> >I've NEVER seen a "project" manager well-liked. I've almost always
> seen a
> >"people" manager well-liked.
> >
> >And yes, in both cases, the work got done, on time.
> >
> >Wanna guess which type I try to be?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >|--------+----------------------->
> >| | |
> >| | |
> >| | lerobe_at_acxiom|
> >| | .co.uk |
> >| | |
> >| | 05/08/2002 |
> >| | 04:38 AM |
> >| | Please |
> >| | respond to |
> >| | ORACLE-L |
> >| | |
> >|--------+----------------------->
> > >----------------------------------------------------|
> > | |
> > | To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com |
> > | cc: (bcc: Rachel Carmichael) |
> > | Subject: RE: Good DBA vs. Bad DBA |
> > >----------------------------------------------------|
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >I see it like this.
> >
> >You can split it down further.
> >
> >Technical people fall into two categories (OK a bit of a
> generalisation)
> >
> >1) Geeks
> >2) People who are technical yet share other interests outside of the
> IT
> >world.
> >
> >Im my experience I find that those who fall under the latter category
> make
> >good managers.
> >
> >At my last job there were two production teams. A Platinunm service
> team and
> >a gold service team dependant on which level of service the client
> had
> >bought. I headed up the Platinum team, a colleague headed up the
> other side.
> >
> >My interests outside of work include cooking, going to soccer
> matches,
> >socialising (OK, going to bars and drinking) etc. etc. etc
> >
> >The other guys interests at home were buying all sorts of gadgetry,
> playing
> >with computers, writing his own operating systems etc. etc
> >
> >I was regarded as a v. good manager (I still see members of my old
> team
> >socially and still get praised on my management style).
> >
> >The other guy (who still works there) was talked about behind his
> back
> >mistrusted and generally disliked and now works in an environment
> where he
> >no longer has staff under him.
> >
> >I think what I am trying to say is that it is OK to be a technical
> sort and
> >be a manager but I think to be successful you must be a "people
> person" as
> >well. A lot of geeks out there can only interact with machines and
> have
> >great difficulty in relating to members of their own species ;-)
> >
> >Lee
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >Sent: 08 May 2002 08:04
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> >It all depends on the background of the Manager -
> >where have they built there careers as a Manager. My
> >current Manager wanted me to check some info using
> >TOAD as ORACLE was not able to answer her questions. I
> >work for a MNC that is known thru out the world.
> >
> >Fazal
> >
> >--- Jared.Still_at_radisys.com wrote:
> >> I'm going to chime in on Dennis with this.
> >>
> >> Good managers are frequently not technical.
> >>
> >> Bad managers are frequently technical. They tend to
> >>
> >> micro manage. My belief is that it is because they
> >> don't really know how to manage.
> >>
> >> There are exceptions: I had an excellent manager at
> >> a previous job. He went from tech to management and
> >> does well at both. Rare, but possible.
> >>
> >> Jared
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> DENNIS WILLIAMS <DWILLIAMS_at_LIFETOUCH.COM>
> >> Sent by: root_at_fatcity.com
> >> 05/07/2002 03:19 PM
> >> Please respond to ORACLE-L
> >>
> >>
> >> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >> <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> >> cc:
> >> Subject: RE: Good DBA vs. Bad DBA
> >>
> >>
> >> Greg - Thanks for taking a stab at it. In reflecting
> >> on the managers I've
> >> had over the years, I disagree with your first
> >> point. Some of my worst
> >> managers have been those that did well at technical
> >> work, but couldn't
> >> manage. Some of my best managers have been
> >> non-technical. They couldn't do
> >> my job or second-guess me, so were forced to
> >> concentrate asking the right
> >> questions. They also spent more time outside the
> >> group building bridges
> >> with
> >> other departments/managers/users so people outside
> >> our department thought
> >> we
> >> were supporting them. This greatly diffused the
> >> antagonism between I.S.
> >> and
> >> the rest of the company.
> >> The other points are cute and true.
> >> Dennis Williams
> >> DBA
> >> Lifetouch, Inc.
> >> dwilliams_at_lifetouch.com
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 4:24 PM
> >> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >>
> >>
> >> Good Manager: Worked their way up from programmer
> >> to DBA to manager.
> >> Bad Manger: Little technical experience, didn't
> >> like programming.
> >>
> >> Good Manager: Patience of a Saint.
> >> Bad Manager: Rules by the Tantrum Method.
> >>
> >> Good Manager: You walk away from a meeting
> >> thinking, "That's a good
> >> idea."
> >> Bad Manager: You walk away from a meeting thinking,
> >> "From now on I'll
> >> keep
> >> the real work to myself, and only ask for an opinion
> >> about what colors to
> >> use on the screens."
> >>
> >> Really Bad Manager: "Is he color blind??"
> >>
> >> --
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> >> Author: Greg Moore
> >> INET: sqlgreg_at_pacbell.net
> >>
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> >> Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
> >> INET: DWILLIAMS_at_LIFETOUCH.COM
> >>
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> >=====
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> >Author: Robertson Lee - lerobe
> > INET: lerobe_at_acxiom.co.uk
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> >Author: Robertson Lee - lerobe
> > INET: lerobe_at_acxiom.co.uk
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Author: Yechiel Adar
  INET: adaryechiel_at_hotmail.com

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