Re: Mixing OO and DB

On Feb 18, 5:10 pm, Bob Badour <bbad..._at_pei.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> JOG wrote:
> > On Feb 18, 2:54 pm, "Brian Selzer" <br..._at_selzer-software.com> wrote:
>
> >>"JOG" <j..._at_cs.nott.ac.uk> wrote in message
>
> >>news:9098871a-bd2c-4385-b547-542f38b2055a_at_34g2000hsz.googlegroups.com...
>
> >>>On Feb 15, 2:31 am, David BL <davi..._at_iinet.net.au> wrote:
>
> >>>>On Feb 14, 10:38 pm, JOG <j..._at_cs.nott.ac.uk> wrote:
> >>>>[snip]
>
> >>>>>On Feb 14, 3:52 am, David BL <davi..._at_iinet.net.au> wrote:
> >>>>>"todays lottery numbers: 23, 34, 17"
> >>>>>"experimental results: 23, 34, 17"
>
> >>>>>All written down on a bit of paper - same values discussed, but
> >>>>>different data. Agree or disagree?
>
> >>>>I agree. Yes, same values but different data
>
> >>>>>I ask this because if we can distinguish data and values, we must then
> >>>>>determine /how/ they are different. You state it is by "encoding" but
> >>>>>the two lines above are encoded in the same manner as far as I am
> >>>>>concerned, so that cannot be the difference between the two concepts.
> >>>>>That is unless your "Encodings" equates to my notion of "Facts", and
> >>>>>we are thus agreeing loudly, using different definitions of those
> >>>>>terms.
>
> >>>>They are the same values and they are encoded in the same manner.
> >>>>However they are distinct appearances, hence distinct data.
>
> >>>Ok, so we're agreed at least there. Same values with the same
> >>>encoding. Yet the first datum is different to the second. The logic
> >>>below therefore follows:
>
> >>>1) The two items of data discussed have the same values and same
> >>>encoding.
>
> >>Yes.
>
> > Hey Brian. That's good - at least there is consensus there.
>
> >>>2) The two items of data can obviously be distinguished (we are agreed
> >>>they are not the same data).
>
> >>No. They are the same data.
>
> > Ok, that I personally find a strange use of the term. You seem to be
> > saying that:
>
> > P(a, b)
> > Q(a, b)
>
> > is the same data? To me that looks like the first line is a different
> > datum to the second, even though they share the same values.
> > Definitely not in your opinion?
>
> >>>3) Therefore a datum must possess some attribute outside of its values
> >>>and encoding.
>
> >>Yes, but not what you think: A fact is supposed to be true.
>
> >>Each appearance of a value in a proposition that is supposed to be true is
> >>data, but each appearance in the same proposition is the same data.
> >>But isn't it also true that at least some combinations of values, such as those
> >>combinations of values that appear in a tuple, may also be data?
>
> What complete and utter nonsense! Why, oh why, Jim, do you inflict this
> on the rest of us?
>
> [snip]

Y'know, I have no idea. I think it must be wishful thinking. Received on Mon Feb 18 2008 - 23:21:33 CET