Re: Re: Question regarding Oracle's stance of non-support for Non-Oracle Public Cloud

You will always be my Unix admin and my favorite SQL Server DBA's bowling partner, Joe.... :)

*Kellyn Gorman*
DBAKevlar Blog <http://dbakevlar.com>
about.me/dbakevlar

On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 3:10 PM Sweetser, Joe <jsweetser_at_icat.com> wrote:

> You need to have that handy little link between the date and my name show
> up in Metalink…said the dated one… J
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> -joe
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> *From:* oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org <oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org> *On
> Behalf Of *Kellyn Pot'Vin-Gorman
> *Sent:* Monday, January 23, 2023 3:17 PM
> *To:* jcwilton93_at_earlham.edu
> *Cc:* Jessica Haessler <haessler_j_at_gmx.de>; dba_at_michael-brown.org; Chris
> Taylor <christopherdtaylor1994_at_gmail.com>; oracle-l_at_freelists.org
> *Subject:* Re: Re: Question regarding Oracle's stance of non-support for
> Non-Oracle Public Cloud
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> I think that's the biggest thing I've noticed when my customers open an SR
> with Oracle- there really isn't conversation about clouds. It just
> doesn't come up as part of the support case in most cases.
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> *Kellyn Gorman*
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> DBAKevlar Blog
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> On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 2:13 PM Jeremiah Cetlin Wilton <
> jcwilton93_at_earlham.edu> wrote:
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> How optimistic of us to imagine that the support analyst would be
> addressing the issue with such competence and rigor that they recognize
> your x86_64 system running Oracle Linux on is hosted in some non-certified
> cloud.
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> Thanks
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> Jeremiah
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> On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 1:55 PM Jessica Haessler <haessler_j_at_gmx.de>
> wrote:
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> I totally agree with Jeremiah. Whatever is covered or not is fixed in your
> contracts. That's what you signed. That's what oracle signed. As an
> experienced architect, engineer whatsoever you can quickly see where the
> issue comes from.
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> Based on: it comes from Oracle. Submit a service request. There will be a
> hundred of others asking the same question ;). Then, I would look in MOS if
> there is already a bug fix available.
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> When you decide to migrate to other clouds, you usually have a partner who
> also helps you in the discussions with oracle. I have seen many great ones.
> Also, some provide custom images and take care of the image. Also, partners
> that take over the license discussions with Oracle.
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> That partner of your choice should know the contract details. So they know
> what to do and what not to do.
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> Also, as you decide going onto another cloud, there is a holistic
> assessment of the architecture taking place. Within vendors such as
> Microsoft or AWS, there are people being knowledged on oracle as well. So
> they can already guide you.
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> Btw just a dumb question... isn't it Oracle who heavily promotes Multi
> cloud by not even knowing what multi cloud means ?! I mean, that note just
> proves it one more time.
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> Food for thought...
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>
> --
> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
> gesendet.
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> Am 23.01.23, 22:40 schrieb Michael Brown <dba_at_michael-brown.org>:
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> It is no different than the VMWare statement from years ago. Steven Chan
> (who was EBS ATG at Oracle backen then) said we don’t certify on Dell, HP,
> or any other physical server brand either. There is a difference between
> certified and supported.
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> If your database is crashing with a segmentation fault, you are generally
> working the issue from both a database and OS/server side. The cloud
> provider is your server side in this case.
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> --
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> Michael Brown
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> On Jan 23, 2023, at 4:28 PM, Jeremiah Cetlin Wilton <
> jcwilton93_at_earlham.edu> wrote:
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> Whether or not Oracle will support you is a matter covered in your signed
> license and support agreement, not in any one of a number of
> non-legally-binding scareware notes.
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> Thousands of Oracle customers run with great success on non-Oracle clouds.
> Because customers run more than Oracle, they use the big fully-featured
> cloud services in order to take advantage of the full ecosystem of services
> those clouds offer, including other databases. I suspect more run on
> non-Oracle clouds than on Oracle's cloud.
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> Thanks
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> Jeremiah
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> On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 1:17 PM Kellyn Pot'Vin-Gorman <dbakevlar_at_gmail.com>
> wrote:
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> I'm just going to be very blunt here- How often are they that helpful if
> you are on a certified platform after you've submitted all the detailed
> information? :) Maybe it's just me, but I would rather pull my fingernails
> out one-by-one than submit an SR for an unknown issue to MOST any vendor.
> I love MOS searches for known bugs, but if it's an unknown, oh, that's not
> going to be fun for anyone and I'd most likely figure out the solution/work
> around on my own than if I'm busy submitting the same answers to tedious
> questions 3-10 times in the SR.
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> I just never found them to be that helpful to begin with when I WAS
> considered on a certified platform. I'm on a platform that has a
> "partnership" and supposed to get support and I don't think it matters
> much. Support for most vendors when it comes to new bugs is painful at
> best and for my customers, I spend the majority of the time convincing my
> Microsoft support folks that it's a database problem and they actually need
> to step back and let the customer submit the Oracle SR! LOL
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> *Kellyn Gorman*
>
> DBAKevlar Blog
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/dbakevlar.com__;!!O7V3aRRsHkZJLA!DeuTGm18lbWJTQBcPgV9apUrxuEqfGA_PLYFRC3shiasSZGSiXTZSl5vQc7kx2F1SmFJw3MyDXqlpnsu$>
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> On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 1:10 PM Chris Taylor <
> christopherdtaylor1994_at_gmail.com> wrote:
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> Hmm, that note specifically says:
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> *Oracle has not certified any of its products on Non-Oracle Public Cloud
> Environments. Oracle Support will assist customers running Oracle products
> on Non-Oracle Public Cloud Environments in the following manner: Oracle
> will only provide support for issues that either are known to occur on an
> Oracle Certified Platform outside of a non-Oracle Cloud Environment (Oracle
> Certification Home
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/support.oracle.com/epmos/faces/CertifyHome__;!!O7V3aRRsHkZJLA!DeuTGm18lbWJTQBcPgV9apUrxuEqfGA_PLYFRC3shiasSZGSiXTZSl5vQc7kx2F1SmFJw3MyDVU7smnT$>),
> or can be demonstrated not to be as a result of running on a Non-Oracle
> Public Cloud Environment. *
> So if you're got a new bug (say in 21c or newest 19c), they *could *tell
> you to take a hike based on that if I'm reading that correctly? (Assuming
> they find out this is a cloud environment you're having an issue on.... )
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> Chris
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> On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 4:05 PM Kellyn Pot'Vin-Gorman <dbakevlar_at_gmail.com>
> wrote:
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> For me, it's not a big deal. Oracle has a lot to manage with their cloud
> customers and their on-premises one, so they are no longer certifying
> anything outside of their own clouds. We have support for Oracle databases
> in Azure and when a problem arises, you simply verify the problem is a
> database issues and then ask the customer to open up an SR. Ensuring that
> customers understand the difference between certified and supported is
> often the biggest hurdle, but it's not really a big deal. Oracle supports
> Oracle on Azure and that's the important thing. That they don't have the
> resources to certify it end to end running on Azure- heck, they probably
> wouldn't know where to start anyway.
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> Thanks,
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> *Kellyn Gorman*
>
> DBAKevlar Blog
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/dbakevlar.com__;!!O7V3aRRsHkZJLA!DeuTGm18lbWJTQBcPgV9apUrxuEqfGA_PLYFRC3shiasSZGSiXTZSl5vQc7kx2F1SmFJw3MyDXqlpnsu$>
>
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> On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 12:43 PM Chris Taylor <
> christopherdtaylor1994_at_gmail.com> wrote:
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> For you guys running in clouds other than Oracle's public cloud, how do
> you get around this doc? I know you'd have to almost volunteer the
> information that its another vendor's cloud, but dmidecode will show that
> its a cloud environment so I'm curious.
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> Has anyone run into issues related to this?
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> Doc: *Oracle Database Support for Non-Oracle Public Cloud Environments
> (Doc ID 2688277.1)*
>
>
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