Re: Oracle License

No no no. Dont ever trust the answer of an Oracle sales person. Only trust your Oracle contract. What the sales people tell you is wrong as often as not.

On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 11:27 PM, Jack van Zanen <jack_at_vanzanen.com> wrote:

> Hi
>
>
> When in doubt (which is always when it concerns oracle licensing) turn to
> the Oracle Sales people and ask them.
> Their answer may not be satisfactory but at least it passes an audit.
>
>
>
> Jack van Zanen
>
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> On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 3:54 AM, Dimensional DBA <
> dimensional.dba_at_comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> I have never found a lawyer or Chief legal counsel that is completely
>> happy with any contract they do not get an opportunity to change, however I
>> have never had a Chief Legal counsel have any problem with the acceptance
>> of the OTN.
>>
>> In answer to some of your questions.
>>
>> "What is the legal definition of software development vs software
>> testing. Production is legally defined but all the rest is ......"
>>
>> I think here you are trying to parse the phrase
>> " purpose of developing, testing, prototyping, and demonstrating Your
>> application and only as long as Your application has not been used for any
>> data processing, business, commercial, or production purposes, and not for
>> any other purpose."
>>
>> The phrase is tied together and because of all the legal/tax
>> documentation surrounding development, some explanation can found here
>> (https://tax.network/cjohnson/capitalize-costs-of-software-development/)
>> and yes tax law may seem more daunting than a regular legal contract.
>>
>> I believe you are trying to split hairs from an argument standpoint of
>> testing for net new development which the first covers versus testing for
>> an application that is already in production. This agreement just like the
>> tax laws make it clear that anything related to the production application
>> is separate, which is covered by the second part of the phrase.
>>
>> As to:
>> "Many have issues with the whole dependent on another product stuff. What
>> happens if 10 years down the road they drop the licensed product but
>> continue to use the the dependent product unknowingly."
>>
>> Chief legal counsel would quote the common phrase (and yes I have had one
>> say it to me)
>> "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" or in this case ignorance of what you
>> are doing/have done is no excuse if it violates a contract or the law.
>> An example that I ran into once was the Audix Voicemail server that had
>> an Oracle 7.3 database under the covers. I only found out about it because
>> the NT Admin responsible was having some problems and came to me because
>> the error he received when he looked it up on google pointed to an Oracle
>> database. I helped him with his problem of course and in later license
>> review when I was trying to account for all database licenses , I asked
>> about this one and when we pulled the product legal contract there is
>> wording in the original contract that the Oracle database could only be
>> used for the AUDIX product. So if you were to remove AUDIX and just use the
>> Oracle database you would be in violation of the license, period no excuses.
>>
>> Both of these
>> Is a bug fix development of a new program? or Production maintenance?
>> Is testing of a program that has not reached production, development
>> testing or production testing?
>>
>> goes back to the write off software development article, your Chief Legal
>> counsel or even your finance people will tell you
>> Bug fix of a new development that cannot under the law be associated as
>> maintenance of a current program, is net new development not production
>> maintenance.
>> If you are testing a program that has not been in production then it is
>> development testing not maintenance.
>>
>> You also have to remember the OTN agreement is not necessarily the only
>> agreement you are working under.
>>
>> If you have no Oracle licenses at all then this is the only agreement
>> that applies relative to Oracle SW (along with the agreement you signed for
>> signing up to OTN) and it is very simple if you are in development life is
>> great, but the moment you start using the application/Oracle SW for any
>> production use you need to follow the OTN license and pay for real licenses
>> for development and production.
>> If you have even one Oracle license then you are operating in a different
>> world which I have spoken about in the past that there are many rules in
>> the contracts that have been signed which expand the definitions and scope
>> of what you are required to do.
>>
>> Buried in your Oracle contracts are a variety of legal statements,
>> depending on the contract which may include
>>
>> "you must maintain support licensing on all Oracle licensed products you
>> own", so you are not allowed to remove support on some database licenses
>> that you will just let that system die off after a time. I had a one client
>> some RAC licenses that we were not using, but had a future plans to build
>> RAC down the road in a year or so when we would need to scale out, so the
>> idea was to not pay support until we actually needed them again. Not
>> allowed.
>>
>> Special note to everyone, based on the OTN license and what is in most
>> Oracle contracts, if you decided to test a product like say Golden Gate
>> against an application that was in production in your company, you
>> technically have to purchase a license to perform that testing. In order to
>> be on solid ground for this requirement you should always speak to your
>> Oracle sales rep and your chief legal counsel. You will get in writing from
>> your Sales Rep that you can download and use the software for x amount time
>> to perform your tests at no charge and your Chief legal counsel will
>> normally touch base with you that you have completed your testing and
>> removed the software. You should never just take some sales person word for
>> it that everything is fine, download the software. Always get it in
>> writing. Luckily Oracle had been reasonable in this area of not going after
>> people who really just tested the software then removed it or decided to
>> purchase it, however when it comes to a license audit, the contracts will
>> apply and under contract/OTN agreement you technically owe Oracle money if
>> the application is in production.
>>
>> Again any Chief Legal counsel will tell you it is all their in black and
>> white, if you take the opportunity to read it. I have never found a Chief
>> legal counsel not willing to talk to you or direct you to one of the
>> lawyers below them to talk to or to get you a copy of the contract to
>> peruse. They are normally very happy that you are taking an interest in
>> their work and trying to protect the company. Gentle reminder as chief
>> legal counsel is normally a C-Level equivalent, don't abuse that privilege
>> of their time.
>>
>>
>> Matthew Parker
>> Chief Technologist
>> Dimensional DBA
>> 425-891-7934 (cell)
>> D&B 047931344
>> CAGE 7J5S7
>> Dimensional.dba_at_comcast.net
>> View Matthew Parker's profile on LinkedIn
>> www.dimensionaldba.com
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org [mailto:oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org]
>> On Behalf Of Dave Morgan
>> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2016 7:55 AM
>> To: Oracle-L
>> Subject: Re: Oracle License
>>
>> Even lawyers don't understand Oracle licensing.
>>
>> What is the legal definition of software development vs software testing.
>> Production is legally defined but all the rest is ......
>>
>> The whole OTN agreement contradicts itself. I have yet to find a lawyer
>> that finds the OTN license acceptable.
>> Many have issues with the whole dependent on another product stuff. What
>> happens if 10 years down the road they drop the licensed product but
>> continue to use the the dependent product unknowingly.
>>
>> Is a bug fix development of a new program? or Production maintenance?
>>
>> Is testing of a program that has not reached production, development
>> testing or production testing?
>>
>> I tell the clients how many sockets I believe they need to be licensed
>> for, and then I document which license I believe every database and Oracle
>> application I know about is under.
>>
>> After that I do lots of arcane and superstitious things, like drinking,
>> that are absolutely required to regain sanity after attempting to deal with
>> Oracle licensing complexities
>>
>> YMMV
>> Dave
>>
>> --
>> Dave Morgan
>> Senior Consultant, 1001111 Alberta Limited dave.morgan_at_1001111.com
>> 403 399 2442
>> --
>> http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
>>
>>
>>
>

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Andrew W. Kerber

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