RE: Re[2]:RE: Manager decrees "his" data warehouse design. Help

Not sanity.
The basic requirement is: Questioning the sanity!!!!!!

Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services
adary_at_mehish.co.il

> -----Original Message-----
> From: April Wells [SMTP:awells_at_csedge.com]
> Sent: Thu, February 28, 2002 2:13 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: Re[2]:RE: Manager decrees "his" data warehouse design.
> Help
>
> Sanity? A requirement? SINCE WHEN?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 4:33 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> I don't know about questioning the design, it's more like questioning the
> sanity
> of the duhveloper. It's one of those more basic requirements.
>
> Dick Goulet
>
> ____________________Reply Separator____________________
> Author: Jared.Still_at_radisys.com
> Date: 2/27/2002 11:31 AM
>
> I think the column limit is now closer to 1000, but like you, I can't
> imagine
> willingly designing a table with a column count exceeding 2 digits.
>
> More than 15 or 20 and I start to question the design.
>
> Jared
>
>
>
>
>
> dgoulet_at_vicr.com
> Sent by: root_at_fatcity.com
> 02/27/02 10:58 AM
> Please respond to ORACLE-L
>
>
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> cc:
> Subject: Re:RE: Manager decrees "his" data warehouse
> design.
> Help!
>
>
> I seem to remember reading somewhere that there can be a maximum of 255
> columns
> in a table. Never created a table with half that many before.
>
> Dick Goulet
>
> ____________________Reply Separator____________________
> Author: Jared.Still_at_radisys.com
> Date: 2/27/2002 10:28 AM
>
> April,
>
> I sincerely hope you're being facetious with the statement that
> "queries run so much faster if you take all the joins out"
>
> 1000 columns!?
> How many rows like that will fit in a block? Your system has to wade
> through
> a lot of extraneous data to get a few columns for a query.
>
> How do you index it? You can't.
>
> It would be most interesting if you share your benchmarks with us.
>
> Jared
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> April Wells <awells_at_csedge.com>
> Sent by: root_at_fatcity.com
> 02/27/02 03:48 AM
> Please respond to ORACLE-L
>
>
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> cc:
> Subject: RE: Manager decrees "his" data warehouse design.
> Help!
>
>
> I agree, but at all costs... DOCUMENT EVERYTHING so it proves you made
> your
> suggestions and then went by the book on following what he decreed. We
> are
> facing similar problems (although not quite to your degree) and we are
> going
> to do two proof of concepts... on that denormalizes EVERYTHING into big
> GIANT tables (very nearly 1000 columns each)... because queries run so
> much
> faster if you take all the joins out... and one using a star-flake kind of
> model because it follows the standard (to the Nth degree)... we will ADOPT
> something about halfway in between... but we need to waste the time now
> following protocol to prove what we already know.
>
> Good Luck!
> ajw
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 3:18 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Don,
> if as you are saying this guy is v headstrong then use the "Chinese
> approach".
> 1. Ensure that you have backed up your argument with a design or at least
> a
> doc outlining your approach showing that views and associated tables will
> ensure performance .....
> 2. Send your emails to him and to others so that there is a trace.
> 3. Then wait and let it blow up. This should not take too long as the
> spec never included any indexes either.
> This way you have followed his design to the letter.
> 4. Let the users kill him when they have to wait 2 hours for the statement
> to return a value.
> 4. This means that you will have time to perfect a design using a CASE
> tool.
> 5. In the end his table could be used as a staging area
>
> Just wait don't get annoyed, smile.
> Just think you can have his job soon.
>
>
>
> Kind Regards
> Peter Lomax (Oracle DBA)
> Expertise Oracle
> ORANGE/DSI/SIMBAD/AT&P
> OrangeFrance
> Bureau:
> email: peter.lomax_at_ftms.fr
> tel: (+33) (0)1 55 22 59 13
> fax: (+33) (0)1 55 22 39 69
> Simbad sailing through UMTS.
>
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Don [mailto:dondealy_at_teleport.com]
> Envoye : mercredi 27 fevrier 2002 07:48
> A : Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Objet : Manager decrees "his" data warehouse design. Help!
>
>
> I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT
> manager has decreed that we will have "his" data warehouse running within
> 24 hours, and we will use his design.
>
> 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views.
> 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups
> 3 - we are to have everything in one table
> 4 - "the" table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk
> 5 - we are not to "start" or "snowflake" designs. "That's just a bunch of
>
>
>
> high power talk."
> 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at "their"
> data. (These are users that were just converted off from "green screen"
> teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.)
> 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions.
> 8 - We are to load into "an" Oracle table, all legacy transction data
> because "we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at"
> 9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want
> to look at, or the atomic level. "They are smart enough to fighure this
> out on their own. We just need to provide them the data."
> 10 - There shall be no long term maintenance required by "the" dw.
>
>
> Any ideas on how to deal with this situation?
>
> For tomorrow, I've done a CTAS from a materialized view that we created to
>
>
>
> support one departments known requirements.
>
>
> Don
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Don
> INET: dondealy_at_teleport.com
>
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> Author: April Wells
> INET: awells_at_csedge.com
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