Did you mean... "MS SQL
Server is a relational database" and not MS Access?
Regards, <FONT
face="Times New Roman">Patrice Boivin <FONT
face="Times New Roman">Systems Analyst (Oracle DBA) <FONT
face="Times New Roman">Acting Head, System Admin & Operations
Bedford Institute of Oceanography
Fisheries and Oceans Canada
<FONT
face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----From: Edward Lock
[mailto:ejlock_at_msn.com]Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 7:50
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Re:
Becoming a DBA questions
As someone with 7 years in the HR (Compensation) field, and now
in the IT/ERP field working on my Oracle DBA OCP, I can speak with some
knowledge and experience.
Using the term "Entry Level" on a resume is self-defeating. Most
technical resumes are still screened by by the HR departments first, before
the hiring managers even see them. A good recruiter will be able to
identify whether you have the experience or not. If not, they will defer
a judgment call to the hiring IT manager anyway. That doesn't mean that
you should lie on your resume or deceive anyone. But don't shoot
yourself in the foot before you even get your foot in the door.
Annual salaries for DBAs are, indeed, coming down. If you can
get ahold of a good IT salary survey, make note of not only the average
salary, but the median salary. The median salary is what is commonly
used to benchmark a position--not the average salary. If a formal
salary structure exists at a company, they will normally use the median as the
compa-ratio for the particular paygrade or step. Use common sense, do
your homework, and ask what you're worth; but always leave room for
compromise.
MS Access IS a relational database. However it is a file-server
application, not a client-server database, and was not designed to handle
large transactional systems over a large network. It is designed for
small to medium sized, non mission-critical business environments.
Properly designed, MS Access can serve many purposes, but you will never find
Payroll or Financial systems using MS Access as a db platform or
front-end. MS Access is a great environment for learning databases and
SQL, but it is only a starting point.
Concerning Oracle training--use everything that you can afford. If
it's a career-change, then consider formal Oracle University instructor-led
training classes. If you're already in the field, then self-study may
work. It takes tremendous self-discipline to go the self-study route
with books and CDS or online training.
People who say that the OCP is valueless to the market have never
tested. I say to them--why not test?
Edward Lock
Sr. Programmer Analyst
PeopleSoft Project Office, University of Houston System
ejlock_at_central.uh.edu
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- Original Message -----
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; COLOR: black">From:
Karniotis, Stephen
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 12:08
PM
To: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: Becoming a DBA
questions
Good afternoon all: I have been holding
back on replying to this email because I reallywanted to see what some
of the other answers were, especially ones relatedto OCP. Rachel
C. will understand as my answers will be very direct.1. What is the
average salary range for an entry-level DBA position? Ora position for
someone who is just starting out as a DBA?>>> As a person that
has worked as an Oracle DBA for over 13years, the entry-level salary had
changed quite dramatically. From themid-to late 1990s when
starting DBAs could make upwards of 100K to "REALITY"when entry-level
DBAs should be making no more than 70K. Some may disagree,however,
I don't think paying high salaries is warranted just because theperson
is a DBA. If they don't have the experience, they don't deserve
thehigh monetary return. I would say that 50K is probably on the
high end forentry-level DBAs. The days of high salaries, similarly
the high consultingrates, are gone and organizations are now back to
reality. I actually hadsomeone whom has been out of work for over
6 months refuse a salary of 65Kas a DBA because he felt it was demeaning
for him to accept it.2. In a job resume, should I request an
entry-level position or wouldthat set me up for no phone
calls?>>> I disagree with everyone else regarding not
using"entry-level" on your resume. If you have no experience and
you are lookingto work in a team environment, then using this wording is
acceptable. Youwill have to pick the job postings carefully so you
don't send resumes toorganizations that require lots of
experience. If you can control that,then remove "entry-level" and
use "junior" instead.3. What are some steps I should take to
becoming a DBA w/ thebackground that I have (ie. generated databases w/
MS Access)?>>> Well, MS Access, although people consider this a
relationaldatabase, is not. It is a file system that looks like a
relationaldatabase. Generating databases in MS Access is nothing
like creatingdatabase environments in Oracle. You will honestly
need to start fromscratch. The data modeling and application
database creating may be similarif you followed the normalization rules
and generally accepted guidelines.I would highly recommend using either
Oracle's online learning network,locating a college/university where
they teach Oracle. These do exist as Ihave taught several of these
classes in Michigan. I would highly recommendcontacting the Los
Angeles Oracle User's Group for the location of coursesthat are
taught.If you are a devoted person when it comes to online training,
thenOracle online learning is a good start. There are other
organizations thatoffer Oracle online training, however, I don't
remember their names.Understand that online training only provides you
the bare basics. It isnot going to give you the exposure and
experience needed to be a true DBA.a) Recommended training/education in
Los Angeles area?b) Where do you recommend I study & is online
training valuable?4. If I could learn Oracle software on my own
through Independent study(books & reference sites), could this be
sufficient enough to go about toget a job?>>> OK.
This is where I disagree with everyone. The OCP is valuelessto the
market. It looks good on the resume because almost no
organizationreally understands how it is obtained. As one of the
authors for the firstindependent Oracle certification, we designed the
certification exam so thatinexperienced Oracle DBAs COULD NOT pass
it. It required Experience!!! TheOracle OCP only requires
you to take some training, read some books, andthen take the exam.
We as experienced DBAs has proven this time after timeby giving the exam
to people that have never been DBAs in their careers andhave only read
some basic Oracle Concepts material. There are a lot of OCPDBAs
that still don't understand how to get stuff out of Oracle's
DataDictionary or, for that matter, what is a data dictionary. I
see no valuein the OCP except as a training mechanism. When high
school students canpass the exam without any experience in Oracle, that
should tell you thevalue of the exam itself.If you can learn
portions of the Oracle software on your own, Great!It will be impossible
to learn all of Oracle on your own as the software isvast in features
and requires different configurations that you may not haveavailable to
you. In teams of acquiring a job from learning the software,you
may be able to get a job working in a team of Oracle DBAs. However,
Iwill be the first one here to say that I would not hire you as a stand
aloneDBA with just that type of experience. For small shops,
maybe, but forenterprises, no way.a) Is the OCP certification
necessary?b) If I took this independent study route instead of formal
trainingfrom like a vocational school, would the steps to getting a job
(or even myOCP certification) be the same? Or would it be more
difficult withoutformal training?Independent study mechanisms are
typically not structured inlearning capabilities. You need a
structured model to properly learn theridiculous things in Oracle,
especially with Oracle9i. I would start withsome basic online
training and then move to a semi-formal study program.From there, either
vocational, self-study or a more formal class would bebeneficial.5.
What are some valuable books and resources to aid in my
training?>>> Rachel's DBA 101 book would be an excellent
choice. Some of thebooks by O'Riely and Oracle Press would also
help you. Many people havegiven excellent suggestions here.
There are so many titles that I would notbeg to know them
offhand.6. How much does Oracle9i cost & would it be worth
it to get since iwant to learn? Are there evaluation copies out
there that I can get myhands on?>>> You can download
Oracle9i from www.oracle.com. In terms of cost, itvaries depending
on the number of CPUs and hardware chosen. You can alsopay for an
Oracle Technology Network membership and receive the CDs
fromOracle. Understand that Oracle is not a small software
product. Therequirements on your hardware are quite large, so make
sure you have enoughbandwidth in terms of CPU and memory before
investing in it.7. What are the basic introductory
courses/resources/training I coulddo to learn or get started in DBA
training?8. Basically, please list the steps you took to become a DBA
(startingwith education/training to job entry) and how you sould suggest
I should goabout starting to learn the fundamentals and then more in
depth?7 & 8 are too generic. I would advise contacting
your own DBA staff andasking them this question. I always
recommend becoming an Oracle developerbefore becoming a DBA. DBAs that
have never developed Oracle-based softwarewill never understand the
issues related to query optimization, performancemanagement, etc. as
well as if they had attempted to create anOracle-centric
application. In many cases, I have seen Oracle DBAs with
nodevelopment experience really screw up an application
environment.Hope this helps.Thank YouStephen P.
KarniotisTechnical Alliance ManagerCompuware CorporationDirect:
(248) 865-4350Mobile: (248) 408-2918Email:
Stephen.Karniotis_at_Compuware.comWeb:
www.compuware.com-----Original Message-----Sent: Monday,
December 31, 2001 11:15 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-LSubject: Re: Becoming a DBA questions1. Depends on the
company/part of the country and the economy.2. State your experience
with other databases. Once you get Oracle upand running at home, add
that so they know you have installed it (IMHOinstalling on Linux is more
impressive as it is very close to unix, butdoing it under windows is
better than nothing.) Don't say "looking forentry-level Oracle dba job"
in your mission statement. Say somethinglike "looking for the
opportunity to move my proven database design andadministration skills
to a new level with Oracle" or something to thatextent.3. If you are
good at self-study, Oracle has online learning thatappears pretty
reasonable ($99/month or something like that). But getyourself an
Oracle installation to practice on first.4. Quite possible to get a job
with self-study and training. Passingyour OCP tests will help you
get that first job. After that it is niceto put on your biography
when you submit papers to present at theconferences and user
groups.6. I'm not in the office today, but I'm sure someone will correct
me onthe title, but the two books I think are great area. Oracle 8i
dba from Oracle Press. I think that is the one that has agreat example
of real-life paper to database that explains things verywell.b. DBA
101 by Rachel Carmichael (and others). I haven't had the chanceto read
it yet, but I've got a friend who is an aspiring dba so I'velooked at it
and he really loves it. And since I'm a big fan ofRachel's work, I
have to recommend it.8. Well, I have been working with databases for
many years. But myfirst Oracle job was an accident. I was hired
for other skills that Ihad and the day I started my new manager said
"the Oracle DBA isleaving. You've got a lot of database experience on
your resume. Want tobe our Oracle DBA?" The rest is history.
My advice to you is to getOracle installed and decide on a project that
you can use and maintain.I built a contact manager using an Access
front-end. I kept learningnew ways to improve the design and
adding new features. Besides comingin very handy for job searches,
it gave me something to discuss whennetworking and someone would hear
that I worked with databases and askwhat I had worked on recently.
I would also recommend looking up alocal user group (start at
www.ioug.org and click on the User Grouplink). Attend and make friends.
These will be your peers and if you'relucky, you may find someone that
will become your mentor. They may notbe in a position to hire you,
but they (we) are generally connected tothe pulse of the hiring market
and know when someone is looking toexpand or hire a replacement.
They can also help you learn new thingsand correct any misconceptions
you have. At the social portion of theevent (most user groups have
conversation time) find someone who hasbeen a dba for a number of years
and ask them if you can talk to them.Explain what your understanding of
something is and then pay attentionas they either correct you or add to
your knowledge. Before you knowit, you will be sitting in an
interview and the interviewer will ask youto explain how to use pctfree
and you will know from your conversationsand testing.Good
luck.Stephen AndertScottsdale, Arizona>>>
LBanzali_at_aol.com 12/31 2:00 AM >>>> Questions for a Database
Administrator:1. What is the average salary range for an entry-level DBA
position? Oraposition for someone who is just starting out as a
DBA?2. In a job resume, should I request an entry-level
position or wouldthatset me up for no phone calls?3.
What are some steps I should take to becoming a DBA w/
thebackgroundthat I have (ie. generated databases w/ MS
Access)?a) Recommended training/education in Los Angeles
area?b) Where do you recommend I study & is online training
valuable?4. If I could learn Oracle software on my own through
Independentstudy(books & reference sites), could this be
sufficient enough to go aboutto geta job?a) Is the OCP
certification necessary?b) If I took this independent study route
instead of formal trainingfromlike a vocational school, would the
steps to getting a job (or even myOCPcertification) be the
same? Or would it be more difficult
withoutformaltraining?5. What are some valuable books
and resources to aid in my training?6. How much does
Oracle9i cost & would it be worth it to get since iwant
tolearn? Are there evaluation copies out there that I can get my
handson?7. What are the basic introductory
courses/resources/training I coulddo tolearn or get started in DBA
training?8. Basically, please list the steps you took to
become a DBA (startingwitheducation/training to job entry) and how
you sould suggest I should goaboutstarting to learn the fundamentals
and then more in depth?Thank you!! I really appreciate your
help!!Please, write to me
@LBanzali_at_aol.comthanks!!smiles & happy new year
2002!!!!--Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
http://www.orafaq.com--Author: Stephen Andert INET:
StephenAndert_at_firsthealth.comFat City Network
Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858)
538-5051San Diego, California
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Received on Wed Jan 02 2002 - 07:27:33 CST
