No, Access *IS* a
relational database!
<FONT
face=verdana>
I almost want to add ;P
to the end of that, but it's true! It's just a "compact" relational database,
that resides in one file. It is still SQL based, and geared around objects such
as tables, indexes etc.
A poor man's RDBMS.. That
does the trick quite nicely for the niche that it's in..
Happy New Year everyone!!
Trying to get back in to the swing of things now eh!!
May you all have a
prosperous one!
<FONT
face=verdana>Cheers
Mark
<FONT
face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----From: root_at_fatcity.com
[mailto:root_at_fatcity.com]On Behalf Of Boivin, Patrice JSent:
02 January 2002 12:40To: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Becoming a DBA questions
Did you mean... "MS SQL
Server is a relational database" and not MS Access?
Regards, <FONT
face="Times New Roman">Patrice Boivin <FONT
face="Times New Roman">Systems Analyst (Oracle DBA) <FONT
face="Times New Roman">Acting Head, System Admin & Operations
Bedford Institute of Oceanography
Fisheries and Oceans Canada
<FONT
face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----From: Edward Lock
[mailto:ejlock_at_msn.com]Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 7:50
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Re:
Becoming a DBA questions
As someone with 7 years in the HR (Compensation) field, and
now in the IT/ERP field working on my Oracle DBA OCP, I can speak with some
knowledge and experience.
Using the term "Entry Level" on a resume is self-defeating. Most
technical resumes are still screened by by the HR departments first, before
the hiring managers even see them. A good recruiter will be able to
identify whether you have the experience or not. If not, they will
defer a judgment call to the hiring IT manager anyway. That doesn't
mean that you should lie on your resume or deceive anyone. But don't
shoot yourself in the foot before you even get your foot in the
door.
Annual salaries for DBAs are, indeed, coming down. If you
can get ahold of a good IT salary survey, make note of not only the
average salary, but the median salary. The median salary is what is
commonly used to benchmark a position--not the average salary.
If a formal salary structure exists at a company, they will normally use the
median as the compa-ratio for the particular paygrade or step. Use
common sense, do your homework, and ask what you're worth; but always
leave room for compromise.
MS Access IS a relational database. However it is a file-server
application, not a client-server database, and was not designed to
handle large transactional systems over a large network. It is
designed for small to medium sized, non mission-critical business
environments. Properly designed, MS Access can serve many purposes,
but you will never find Payroll or Financial systems using MS Access as a db
platform or front-end. MS Access is a great environment for learning
databases and SQL, but it is only a starting point.
Concerning Oracle training--use everything that you can afford.
If it's a career-change, then consider formal Oracle University
instructor-led training classes. If you're already in the field, then
self-study may work. It takes tremendous self-discipline to go the
self-study route with books and CDS or online training.
People who say that the OCP is valueless to the market have never
tested. I say to them--why not test?
Edward Lock
Sr. Programmer Analyst
PeopleSoft Project Office, University of Houston System
ejlock_at_central.uh.edu
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
- Original Message -----
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; COLOR: black">From:
Karniotis, Stephen
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 12:08
PM
To: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: Becoming a DBA
questions
Good afternoon all: I have been
holding back on replying to this email because I reallywanted to see
what some of the other answers were, especially ones relatedto
OCP. Rachel C. will understand as my answers will be very
direct.1. What is the average salary range for an entry-level DBA
position? Ora position for someone who is just starting out as a
DBA?>>> As a person that has worked as an Oracle DBA for over
13years, the entry-level salary had changed quite dramatically.
From themid-to late 1990s when starting DBAs could make upwards of
100K to "REALITY"when entry-level DBAs should be making no more than
70K. Some may disagree,however, I don't think paying high
salaries is warranted just because theperson is a DBA. If they
don't have the experience, they don't deserve thehigh monetary
return. I would say that 50K is probably on the high end
forentry-level DBAs. The days of high salaries, similarly the
high consultingrates, are gone and organizations are now back to
reality. I actually hadsomeone whom has been out of work for
over 6 months refuse a salary of 65Kas a DBA because he felt it was
demeaning for him to accept it.2. In a job resume, should I
request an entry-level position or wouldthat set me up for no phone
calls?>>> I disagree with everyone else regarding not
using"entry-level" on your resume. If you have no experience and
you are lookingto work in a team environment, then using this wording
is acceptable. Youwill have to pick the job postings carefully
so you don't send resumes toorganizations that require lots of
experience. If you can control that,then remove "entry-level"
and use "junior" instead.3. What are some steps I should take to
becoming a DBA w/ thebackground that I have (ie. generated databases
w/ MS Access)?>>> Well, MS Access, although people consider
this a relationaldatabase, is not. It is a file system that
looks like a relationaldatabase. Generating databases in MS
Access is nothing like creatingdatabase environments in Oracle.
You will honestly need to start fromscratch. The data modeling
and application database creating may be similarif you followed the
normalization rules and generally accepted guidelines.I would highly
recommend using either Oracle's online learning network,locating a
college/university where they teach Oracle. These do exist as
Ihave taught several of these classes in Michigan. I would
highly recommendcontacting the Los Angeles Oracle User's Group for the
location of coursesthat are taught.If you are a devoted person
when it comes to online training, thenOracle online learning is a good
start. There are other organizations thatoffer Oracle online
training, however, I don't remember their names.Understand that online
training only provides you the bare basics. It isnot going to
give you the exposure and experience needed to be a true DBA.a)
Recommended training/education in Los Angeles area?b) Where do you
recommend I study & is online training valuable?4. If I could
learn Oracle software on my own through Independent study(books &
reference sites), could this be sufficient enough to go about toget a
job?>>> OK. This is where I disagree with
everyone. The OCP is valuelessto the market. It looks good
on the resume because almost no organizationreally understands how it
is obtained. As one of the authors for the firstindependent
Oracle certification, we designed the certification exam so
thatinexperienced Oracle DBAs COULD NOT pass it. It required
Experience!!! TheOracle OCP only requires you to take some
training, read some books, andthen take the exam. We as
experienced DBAs has proven this time after timeby giving the exam to
people that have never been DBAs in their careers andhave only read
some basic Oracle Concepts material. There are a lot of OCPDBAs
that still don't understand how to get stuff out of Oracle's
DataDictionary or, for that matter, what is a data dictionary. I
see no valuein the OCP except as a training mechanism. When high
school students canpass the exam without any experience in Oracle,
that should tell you thevalue of the exam itself.If you can
learn portions of the Oracle software on your own, Great!It will be
impossible to learn all of Oracle on your own as the software isvast
in features and requires different configurations that you may not
haveavailable to you. In teams of acquiring a job from learning
the software,you may be able to get a job working in a team of Oracle
DBAs. However, Iwill be the first one here to say that I would
not hire you as a stand aloneDBA with just that type of
experience. For small shops, maybe, but forenterprises, no
way.a) Is the OCP certification necessary?b) If I took this
independent study route instead of formal trainingfrom like a
vocational school, would the steps to getting a job (or even myOCP
certification) be the same? Or would it be more difficult
withoutformal training?Independent study mechanisms are typically
not structured inlearning capabilities. You need a structured
model to properly learn theridiculous things in Oracle, especially
with Oracle9i. I would start withsome basic online training and
then move to a semi-formal study program.From there, either
vocational, self-study or a more formal class would
bebeneficial.5. What are some valuable books and resources to aid
in my training?>>> Rachel's DBA 101 book would be an
excellent choice. Some of thebooks by O'Riely and Oracle Press
would also help you. Many people havegiven excellent suggestions
here. There are so many titles that I would notbeg to know them
offhand.6. How much does Oracle9i cost & would it be worth
it to get since iwant to learn? Are there evaluation copies out
there that I can get myhands on?>>> You can download
Oracle9i from www.oracle.com. In terms of cost, itvaries
depending on the number of CPUs and hardware chosen. You can
alsopay for an Oracle Technology Network membership and receive the
CDs fromOracle. Understand that Oracle is not a small software
product. Therequirements on your hardware are quite large, so
make sure you have enoughbandwidth in terms of CPU and memory before
investing in it.7. What are the basic introductory
courses/resources/training I coulddo to learn or get started in DBA
training?8. Basically, please list the steps you took to become a DBA
(startingwith education/training to job entry) and how you sould
suggest I should goabout starting to learn the fundamentals and then
more in depth?7 & 8 are too generic. I would advise
contacting your own DBA staff andasking them this question. I
always recommend becoming an Oracle developerbefore becoming a DBA.
DBAs that have never developed Oracle-based softwarewill never
understand the issues related to query optimization,
performancemanagement, etc. as well as if they had attempted to create
anOracle-centric application. In many cases, I have seen Oracle
DBAs with nodevelopment experience really screw up an application
environment.Hope this helps.Thank YouStephen
P. KarniotisTechnical Alliance ManagerCompuware
CorporationDirect: (248) 865-4350Mobile: (248) 408-2918Email:
Stephen.Karniotis_at_Compuware.comWeb:
www.compuware.com-----Original Message-----Sent: Monday,
December 31, 2001 11:15 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-LSubject: Re: Becoming a DBA questions1. Depends on the
company/part of the country and the economy.2. State your experience
with other databases. Once you get Oracle upand running at home, add
that so they know you have installed it (IMHOinstalling on Linux is
more impressive as it is very close to unix, butdoing it under windows
is better than nothing.) Don't say "looking forentry-level Oracle dba
job" in your mission statement. Say somethinglike "looking for
the opportunity to move my proven database design andadministration
skills to a new level with Oracle" or something to thatextent.3.
If you are good at self-study, Oracle has online learning thatappears
pretty reasonable ($99/month or something like that). But
getyourself an Oracle installation to practice on first.4. Quite
possible to get a job with self-study and training. Passingyour
OCP tests will help you get that first job. After that it is
niceto put on your biography when you submit papers to present at
theconferences and user groups.6. I'm not in the office today, but
I'm sure someone will correct me onthe title, but the two books I
think are great area. Oracle 8i dba from Oracle Press. I think that is
the one that has agreat example of real-life paper to database that
explains things verywell.b. DBA 101 by Rachel Carmichael (and
others). I haven't had the chanceto read it yet, but I've got a friend
who is an aspiring dba so I'velooked at it and he really loves
it. And since I'm a big fan ofRachel's work, I have to recommend
it.8. Well, I have been working with databases for many years. But
myfirst Oracle job was an accident. I was hired for other skills
that Ihad and the day I started my new manager said "the Oracle DBA
isleaving. You've got a lot of database experience on your resume.
Want tobe our Oracle DBA?" The rest is history. My advice
to you is to getOracle installed and decide on a project that you can
use and maintain.I built a contact manager using an Access
front-end. I kept learningnew ways to improve the design and
adding new features. Besides comingin very handy for job
searches, it gave me something to discuss whennetworking and someone
would hear that I worked with databases and askwhat I had worked on
recently. I would also recommend looking up alocal user group
(start at www.ioug.org and click on the User Grouplink). Attend and
make friends. These will be your peers and if you'relucky, you may
find someone that will become your mentor. They may notbe in a
position to hire you, but they (we) are generally connected tothe
pulse of the hiring market and know when someone is looking toexpand
or hire a replacement. They can also help you learn new
thingsand correct any misconceptions you have. At the social
portion of theevent (most user groups have conversation time) find
someone who hasbeen a dba for a number of years and ask them if you
can talk to them.Explain what your understanding of something is and
then pay attentionas they either correct you or add to your
knowledge. Before you knowit, you will be sitting in an
interview and the interviewer will ask youto explain how to use
pctfree and you will know from your conversationsand
testing.Good luck.Stephen AndertScottsdale,
Arizona>>> LBanzali_at_aol.com 12/31 2:00 AM
>>>> Questions for a Database Administrator:1. What is
the average salary range for an entry-level DBA position?
Oraposition for someone who is just starting out as a
DBA?2. In a job resume, should I request an entry-level
position or wouldthatset me up for no phone calls?3.
What are some steps I should take to becoming a DBA w/
thebackgroundthat I have (ie. generated databases w/ MS
Access)?a) Recommended training/education in Los Angeles
area?b) Where do you recommend I study & is online training
valuable?4. If I could learn Oracle software on my own
through Independentstudy(books & reference sites), could this
be sufficient enough to go aboutto geta job?a) Is
the OCP certification necessary?b) If I took this independent
study route instead of formal trainingfromlike a vocational
school, would the steps to getting a job (or even
myOCPcertification) be the same? Or would it be more
difficult withoutformaltraining?5. What are some
valuable books and resources to aid in my training?6.
How much does Oracle9i cost & would it be worth it to get since
iwant tolearn? Are there evaluation copies out there that I
can get my handson?7. What are the basic introductory
courses/resources/training I coulddo tolearn or get started in DBA
training?8. Basically, please list the steps you took to
become a DBA (startingwitheducation/training to job entry) and how
you sould suggest I should goaboutstarting to learn the
fundamentals and then more in depth?Thank you!! I really
appreciate your help!!Please, write to me
@LBanzali_at_aol.comthanks!!smiles & happy new year
2002!!!!--Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
http://www.orafaq.com--Author: Stephen Andert INET:
StephenAndert_at_firsthealth.comFat City Network
Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858)
538-5051San Diego,
California -- Public Internet
access / Mailing
Lists--------------------------------------------------------------------To
REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto:
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HELP command for other information (like subscribing).--Please see
the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com--Author:
Karniotis, Stephen INET:
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Received on Wed Jan 02 2002 - 08:21:36 CST
