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Home -> Community -> Mailing Lists -> Oracle-L -> RE: WAAYYY OT: RE: FreeOCP
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I agree, Alex. I hate that shit.
-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Hillman [mailto:alex_hillman_at_physia.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 7:40 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: WAAYYY OT: RE: FreeOCP
I think that "crap" and "stinks" is a little too much. Same thought could be easily expressed in more polite way.
Alex Hillman
-----Original Message-----
From: Testa, Joe S [ mailto:jstesta_at_dorseyplus.com
<mailto:jstesta_at_dorseyplus.com> ]
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 9:05 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: WAAYYY OT: RE: FreeOCP
save the political correctness, too much of that crap goes on already,
people are entitled to their opinion whether you or anyone like it or
not.
This crap of "what i think is right and what you think is right is ok"
stinks,
post-modernists suck.
joe
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 7:42 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Come on Rachel, this comment is a little overblown, I don't believe that some one who is a OCP DBA does not know how to shut down a database. These are things some one learns or should learn when they think about being a DBA. I am sure this topics are well covered in OCP exams. The fact is somebody likes to get certified and some people do not. Some body like institution and some do not. It is always a choice and everybody should respect either stand. Exceptions are on both the side.
S.Talukder
Sr.DBA
Convergys Corporation
Direct: (513) 748 5086
Cell:(513) 229 7422
Rachel Carmichael wrote: My point also was that you
cannot generalize... nothing is ever black and white,
there are always shades of gray.Yes there are DBAs
with OCP who are fantastic. There are also DBAs with
OCP who don't know a thing about a database. I get
really scared when I see someone post a note "how do I
shutdown the database" and their signature like has
OCP in it.>From: "aaaa wwwwww" >Reply-To:
ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>To: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-L >Subject: RE: FreeOCP>Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000
19:25:24 -0800>>Dear Seniors>>Most of U felt bad it
seems !>>When we are generalising U shouldn't bring
case by case example>>Rao>-->>On Tue, 05 Dec 2000
16:45:22> Rachel Carmichael wrote:> >Jeff,> >>
>Forgive me for jumping in on your rant, but I didn't
see the original> >message.> >> >All -> >> >I do love
this quote from the original email:> >> >"In my humble
opinion, any OCP DBA with experience is lot better
than a >OCP> >DBA without experience or an experienced
DBA without OCP."> >> >Really? Let's see.... I've been
working as a DBA for 10+ years. I have >met> >DBAs
with OCP and experience, DBAs with experience and no
OCP and DBAs >with> >OCP and no experience.> >> >OCP
does not in and of itself confer anything. You can
pass the tests and> >never have used the products that
the tests are about. I passed the 8.0 >to> >8i upgrade
without ever having worked with RMAN, partitioned
tables,> >Advanced Queuing, local and global
partitioned indexes etc -- I hadn't> >worked with 8i
at ALL. What I *did* have were some hours spent at>
>conferences listening to people present on these
topics, and a really >good> >ability to guess on
standardized tests. I passed the 7.3 to 8.0 upgrade
>the> >same way.> >> >So I have OCP and it still does
not mean that I have experience in these> >things.> >>
>Jeff is right -- what counts is what the person
knows, not how he/she> >learned it. The best
explanation I have ever heard was from Michael Abbey>
>who said "OCP will get you in the door, but it's up
to you and your> >abilities to keep you there".> >>
>All OCP does is give upper management a warm and
fuzzy (and often >incorrect)> >feeling about the
abilities of the candidate.> >> >I don't look to see
OCP on a resume before I interview someone. I don't>
>reject the candidate if it is there, but it doesn't
get you in the door >to> >see me. Your resume does.>
>> >End of *MY* rant -- thanks Jeff :)> >> >Rachel> >>
>>From: Jeffery Stevenson > >>Reply-To:
ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com> >>To: Multiple recipients of
list ORACLE-L > >>Subject: RE: FreeOCP> >>Date: Tue,
05 Dec 2000 06:41:28 -0800> >>> >> Every person should
be judged on their own individual merits...a >veteran>
>>DBA without OCP might have a box at home (or at
work) where they take >the> >>latest and greatest and
play with all the new features to figure out how>
>>they work and see what kind of advantages they
bring. You could have a >DBA> >>with lots of years of
experience recorded and an OCP that has just been>
>>soaking up money in a big contract for a consulting
firm somewhere (and >not> >>really doing much), but
they've had lots of time to take the tests >(until>
>>they passed them all). There are too many variables
in this world to >judge> >>a situation without getting
all of the details...keeping that in mind, I> >>cannot
agree with your viewpoint that an OCP DBA with
experience is >going> >>to> >>be better than any other
DBA--every situation is different. When>
>>interviewing other DBAs, I might make initial
judgements after reviewing> >>their resume, but
(unless that resume is really, really bad) I won't
>rule> >>them out until I've had a chance to talk with
them. The DBA market is a> >>tight market, why rule
out any potentially good employee/help based on>
>>years> >>of experience or a piece of paper? None of
that can tell me exactly >what> >>kind of heart, will,
intelligence, common sense, personality, or >learning>
>>ability a person has. OCP and years of experience
have definite merits> >>when> >>trying to get HR's
attention and jacking prices in contracts, but if the>
>>person behind all that isn't really that good...>
>>> >> Sorry about the rant, but I just couldn't sit
back and listen to all> >>this> >>without saying
something...> >>> >>Jeffery Stevenson> >>Chief Databeast Tamer> >>Medical Present Value, Inc.>
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-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com <http://www.orafaq.com> -- Author: SHAIBAL TALUKDER INET: shaibal_talukder_at_yahoo.com Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com <http://www.orafaq.com> -- Author: Testa, Joe S INET: jstesta_at_dorseyplus.com Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). ------_=_NextPart_001_01C06053.8D2C80F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <TITLE>RE: WAAYYY OT: RE: FreeOCP</TITLE> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=302024213-07122000><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I agree, Alex. I hate that shit. </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Alex Hillman [mailto:alex_hillman_at_physia.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 06, 2000 7:40 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: WAAYYY OT: RE: FreeOCP<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <P><FONT size=2>I think that "crap" and "stinks" is a little too much. Same thought could be easily expressed in more polite way. </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>Alex Hillman</FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>From: Testa, Joe S [<A href="mailto:jstesta_at_dorseyplus.com">mailto:jstesta_at_dorseyplus.com</A>]</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 9:05 AM</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Subject: WAAYYY OT: RE: FreeOCP</FONT> </P><BR> <P><FONT size=2>save the political correctness, too much of that crap goes on already,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>people are entitled to their opinion whether you or anyone like it or not.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>This crap of "what i think is right and what you think is right is ok"</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>stinks, </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>post-modernists suck.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=2>joe</FONT> </P><BR> <P><FONT size=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 7:42 AM</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L</FONT> </P><BR> <P><FONT size=2> Come on Rachel, this comment is a little overblown, I</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>don't believe that some one who is a OCP DBA does not</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>know how to shut down a database. These are things</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>some one learns or should learn when they think about</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>being a DBA. I am sure this topics are well covered in</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>OCP exams. The fact is somebody likes to get certified</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>and some people do not. Some body like institution and</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>some do not. It is always a choice and everybody</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>should respect either stand. Exceptions are on both</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>the side.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=2>S.Talukder</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Sr.DBA</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Convergys Corporation</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Direct: (513) 748 5086</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Cell:(513) 229 7422</FONT> </P><BR> <P><FONT size=2>Rachel Carmichael wrote: My point also was that you</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>cannot generalize... nothing is ever black and white,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>there are always shades of gray.Yes there are DBAs</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>with OCP who are fantastic. There are also DBAs with</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>OCP who don't know a thing about a database. I get</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>really scared when I see someone post a note "how do I</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>shutdown the database" and their signature like has</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>OCP in it.>From: "aaaa wwwwww" >Reply-To:</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>To: Multiple recipients of list</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>ORACLE-L >Subject: RE: FreeOCP>Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>19:25:24 -0800>>Dear Seniors>>Most of U felt bad it</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>seems !>>When we are generalising U shouldn't bring</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>case by case example>>Rao>-->>On Tue, 05 Dec 2000</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>16:45:22> Rachel Carmichael wrote:> >Jeff,> >></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>Forgive me for jumping in on your rant, but I didn't</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>see the original> >message.> >> >All -> >> >I do love</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>this quote from the original email:> >> >"In my humble</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>opinion, any OCP DBA with experience is lot better</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>than a >OCP> >DBA without experience or an experienced</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>DBA without OCP."> >> >Really? Let's see.... I've been</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>working as a DBA for 10+ years. I have >met> >DBAs</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>with OCP and experience, DBAs with experience and no</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>OCP and DBAs >with> >OCP and no experience.> >> >OCP</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>does not in and of itself confer anything. You can</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>pass the tests and> >never have used the products that</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>the tests are about. I passed the 8.0 >to> >8i upgrade</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>without ever having worked with RMAN, partitioned</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>tables,> >Advanced Queuing, local and global</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>partitioned indexes etc -- I hadn't> >worked with 8i</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>at ALL. What I *did* have were some hours spent at></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>conferences listening to people present on these</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>topics, and a really >good> >ability to guess on</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>standardized tests. I passed the 7.3 to 8.0 upgrade</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>the> >same way.> >> >So I have OCP and it still does</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>not mean that I have experience in these> >things.> >></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>Jeff is right -- what counts is what the person</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>knows, not how he/she> >learned it. The best</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>explanation I have ever heard was from Michael Abbey></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>who said "OCP will get you in the door, but it's up</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>to you and your> >abilities to keep you there".> >></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>All OCP does is give upper management a warm and</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>fuzzy (and often >incorrect)> >feeling about the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>abilities of the candidate.> >> >I don't look to see</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>OCP on a resume before I interview someone. I don't></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>reject the candidate if it is there, but it doesn't</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>get you in the door >to> >see me. Your resume does.></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>> >End of *MY* rant -- thanks Jeff :)> >> >Rachel> >></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>>From: Jeffery Stevenson > >>Reply-To:</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com> >>To: Multiple recipients of</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>list ORACLE-L > >>Subject: RE: FreeOCP> >>Date: Tue,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>05 Dec 2000 06:41:28 -0800> >>> >> Every person should</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>be judged on their own individual merits...a >veteran></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>>DBA without OCP might have a box at home (or at</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>work) where they take >the> >>latest and greatest and</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>play with all the new features to figure out how></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>>they work and see what kind of advantages they</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>bring. You could have a >DBA> >>with lots of years of</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>experience recorded and an OCP that has just been></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>>soaking up money in a big contract for a consulting</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>firm somewhere (and >not> >>really doing much), but</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>they've had lots of time to take the tests >(until></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>>they passed them all). There are too many variables</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>in this world to >judge> >>a situation without getting</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>all of the details...keeping that in mind, I> >>cannot</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>agree with your viewpoint that an OCP DBA with</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>experience is >going> >>to> >>be better than any other</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>DBA--every situation is different. When></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>>interviewing other DBAs, I might make initial</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>judgements after reviewing> >>their resume, but</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>(unless that resume is really, really bad) I won't</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>rule> >>them out until I've had a chance to talk with</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>them. The DBA market is a> >>tight market, why rule</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>out any potentially good employee/help based on></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>>years> >>of experience or a piece of paper? None of</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>that can tell me exactly >what> >>kind of heart, will,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>intelligence, common sense, personality, or >learning></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>>ability a person has. OCP and years of experience</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>have definite merits> >>when> >>trying to get HR's</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>attention and jacking prices in contracts, but if the></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>>person behind all that isn't really that good...></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>>> >> Sorry about the rant, but I just couldn't sit</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>back and listen to all> >>this> >>without saying</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>something...> >>> >>Jeffery Stevenson> >>Chief</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Databeast Tamer> >>Medical Present Value, Inc.></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>>Austin, TX> >>> >>-----Original Message-----></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>>Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 4:51 PM> >>To:</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L> >>> >>> >>Hi</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>friends!> >> There is a lots of talk about Paper DBAs</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>on this message board. With >due> >>respect to all the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>veteran DBAs without OCP and new DBAs with OCP, I</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>would> >>like to make few comments from my own</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>personal experience (spanning 9> >>years+> >>in USA,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Europe and India)> >>> >> I have come across lots of</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>long time DBAs with no OCP, who frown on >OCP> >>DBAs.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Working closely with them, I noticed that these longs</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>really count> >>the> >>hours to bill the clients. To</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>my dismay, I came across 10+ years Oracle> >>DBAs></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>>who had no clue about OPS, Partitioning, Snapshots,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Stand by etc... They> >>have gained experience over</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>the years only because the client could not> >>find></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>>a better alternative.> >>> >> At the same time, in</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>the interviews and at work, I come across lots of></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>>new> >>OCP DBAs who can do the job, but need lots</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>support and help from the >other> >>DBAs. (It is sort</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>of baby sitting).> >>> >> I was a DBA without OCP for</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>long time and I had no problem in finding> >>jobs></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>>without OCP. After I started preparing for OCP, I</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>came to know of so >many> >>things that I did not know</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>before. In my humble opinion, any OCP DBA >with></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>>experience is lot better than a OCP DBA without</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>experience or an> >>experienced> >>DBA without OCP.></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>>> >> OCP helped me as a DBA to understand things</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>that I did not know >before.> >>It> >>took lots of</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>time, confidence and enthusiasm to be a OCP DBA and</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>change >my> >>self in the process.> >>> >> Without</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>OCP, I would have been a Pumpkin DBA, doing clueless</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>things in >a> >>random and unilateral way. Let's face</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>it... OCP or No OCP is a matter of> >>choice. But it</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>helps to be OCP than be left-out and looking at SOUR></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>>GRAPES!!!> >>> >>Rama> >>OCP DBA with experience!></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>>> >>> >>--> >>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2><A target=_blank href="http://www.orafaq.com">http://www.orafaq.com</A>> >>--> >>Author: Rama Malladi></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>> INET: rmalladi_at_inteliant.com> >>> >>Fat City</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858)</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>538-5051> >>San Diego, California -- Public Internet</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>access / Mailing Lists></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>E-Mail message> >>to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>spelling of 'ListGuru') and in> >>the message BODY,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L> >>(or the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>may> >>also send the HELP command for other</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>information (like subscribing).> >>--> >>Please see</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>the official ORACLE-L FAQ: <A target=_blank href="http://www.orafaq.com">http://www.orafaq.com</A>></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>>--> >>Author: Jeffery Stevenson> >> INET:</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>jeff_at_mpv.com> >>> >>Fat City Network Services -- (858)</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051> >>San Diego, California</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>E-Mail message> >>to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>spelling of 'ListGuru') and in> >>the message BODY,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L> >>(or the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>may> >>also send the HELP command for other</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>information (like subscribing).> >></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>___________________________________________________________________________</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>__________></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>><A target=_blank href="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</A>> >> >--> >Please see the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>official ORACLE-L FAQ: <A target=_blank href="http://www.orafaq.com">http://www.orafaq.com</A>> >--></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>Author: Rachel Carmichael> > INET:</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>carmichr_at_hotmail.com> >> >Fat City Network Services --</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>(858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051> >San Diego,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>--------------------------------------------------------------------></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>E-Mail message> >to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>spelling of 'ListGuru') and in> >the message BODY,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L> >(or the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>may> >also send the HELP command for other information</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>(like subscribing).> >>>>Great Gift Idea! FREE cell</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>phone, internet ready at Lycos Marketplace></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2><A target=_blank href="http://www.inphonic.lycos.com/redirect.asp?referringpage=www.lycosd1">http://www.inphonic.lycos.com/redirect.asp?referringpage=www.lycosd1</A>>-->Plea</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>se</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2><A target=_blank href="http://www.orafaq.com">http://www.orafaq.com</A>>-->Author: aaaa wwwwww> INET:</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>krisibm_at_lycos.com>>Fat City Network Services -- (858)</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051>San Diego, California --</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Public Internet access / Mailing</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Lists>-------------------------------------------------------------------->T</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>o</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>message>to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>of 'ListGuru') and in>the message BODY, include a line</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L>(or the name of mailing</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>list you want to be removed from). You may>also send</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>the HELP command for other information (like</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>subscribing)._______________________________________________________________</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>______________________Get</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2><A target=_blank href="http://explorer.msn.com--">http://explorer.msn.com--</A> Please see the official</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>ORACLE-L FAQ: <A target=_blank href="http://www.orafaq.com--">http://www.orafaq.com--</A> Author: Rachel</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>CarmichaelINET: carmichr_at_hotmail.comFat City Network</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051San</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Lists--------------------------------------------------------------------To</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>messageto: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>HELP command for other information (like subscribing).</FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=2>__________________________________________________</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Do You Yahoo!?</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2><A target=_blank href="http://shopping.yahoo.com/">http://shopping.yahoo.com/</A></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>-- </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: <A target=_blank href="http://www.orafaq.com">http://www.orafaq.com</A></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>-- </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>Author: SHAIBAL TALUKDER</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2> INET: shaibal_talukder_at_yahoo.com</FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=2>Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>--------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>-- </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: <A target=_blank href="http://www.orafaq.com">http://www.orafaq.com</A></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>-- </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>Author: Testa, Joe S</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2> INET: jstesta_at_dorseyplus.com</FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=2>Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>--------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT>Received on Thu Dec 07 2000 - 07:42:33 CST
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