Paul Dorsey / (Fwd) RE: Forms 6i or Java

• Forwarded message follows ------- Date sent: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 10:19:06 -0800 To: Multiple recipients of list ODTUG-DEV2K-L <ODTUG-DEV2K-L@= fatcity.com> Send reply to: ODTUG-DEV2K-L_at_fatcity.com From: "Paul Dorsey" <pdorsey_at_dulcian.com> Subject: RE: Forms 6i or Java Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California

Pascal,

Let me apologize in advance for what looks suspiciously like a serious flame. I don't really want to do that, but I DO think that it is essentia= l
to separate goals and technology hype from well understood technology. Wit= h
all due respect, if you have the skills to bring off the vision you so blithely espouse, you have a standing offer at Dulcian and you can name yo= ur
price. If you don't have those skills, then your post was ill advised and misleading.

I realize what the Oracle party line is but let me guess.. are you maybe i= n
marketing, or do you build this stuff for a living? I am actually trying to get this stuff to work and I have having a hell of=  a
time. Maybe I am not nearly as smart as the people that work for Oracle, but my experience at ODTUG would indicate that there is no one in the user development community that has been able to achieve the nirvana that you espouse. I think we all understand what the goal is, but we users all have to work in a world where things have to actually work in something other than a sales demo running against scott/tiger.

OK, lets say that there are things that can be done better in JDeveloper than in Forms and then you cobble them together. How many people are actually doing this? There was no one at ODTUG.

Remember the joys of VBXs and OCXs? I am just SURE the Java plug-ins will work at least as well.
OK, lets assume it works. What SHOULD we do in JavaBeans?

These are very hard questions, lets make sure that you sprinkle in some honest warnings with the sales pitch. Please don't push unsuspecting users down an untested well. I have the scars upon scars from earlier wells to make me more than a little skeptical. Please, let some of us actually get some experience on this before we declare this as being the glorious new shining path.

Paul Dorsey
Dulcian, Inc.

Oooooh, this should make for a fun thread!

  -----Original Message-----
  From: root_at_fatcity.com [mailto:root_at_fatcity.com]On Behalf Of Pascal Gibe= rt
  Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 12:59 PM   To: Multiple recipients of list ODTUG-DEV2K-L   Subject: Re: Forms 6i or Java

  You raise an interesting question regarding the use of Forms Server 6i o= r
JDeveloper in your project.
  The answer really depends on the nature of the application, and the skil= l
set of the developers and the profile of the application users. However, both of these tool suites are key components of Oracle's e-Business Platfo= rm
and in fact, are most compelling and successful when used together.

  Oracle Forms Server and Forms Developer provide an integrated tool suite and application framework to host applications with rich Java UI's and complex
  application functionality that perform with out of the box scalability over any network. With the Forms Server you can leverage any other indust= ry
standard components XML, EJBs, Oracle8i features such as Java in the database, AQ or Oracle Business Components for Java, through open API's, o= r
you can extend the user interface through client Java Beans or Pluggable Java Components.

  This is an excellent example of how the two tools suites integrate and c= an
be used together. You can use the JDeveloper stack to build re-usable components and business logic with Business Components for Java and plug them into the application framework provided by the Forms Server. Wizards in JDeveloper 3 assist
  you to build pluggable java components for your Oracle Forms Server applications. This means your business developers can use Forms Developer to quickly build the application, plug in additional components built by Java Developers with JDeveloper and use the Forms Server application framework to provide native services that are typically pretty darn hard t= o
deliver optimally in every implementation. Forms Server provides native services including network optimizations, scalability and performance - th= is
is made possible because of the large development team continually working on enhancing Forms Server to deliver optimal performance every time for al= l
your Forms apps - in much the same way as the database improves with every release. This means you can have your cake and eat it too - get all the freebie services from the Forms Server but still leverage other components and business logic for extended functionality built within the JDeveloper stack.

  The best example of this is Oracle Applications Release 11i - Forms Server makes sense because of the richness of the application user interfa= ce
required and the need to build apps pretty quickly that scale automaticall= y
(without having to make sure each individual developer writes code that is optimized for every network configuration). The apps division makes use o= f
JavaBeans and Pluggable Java Components to provide extended functionality and UI components and is migrating to BC4J - but still plans to take advantage of Forms Server as the application framework mechanism because i= t
provides native services that are otherwise fairly difficult to deliver b= y
hand in every implementation.

      Thank you

      Pascal.

  Szecsy Tamas wrote:

    Hi,

    we are at the begining of the developement of a function centric web application (intranet, later also some inetrnet access) - about a dozen forms and a lot of functionality.

    We can not decide wether to use Forms 6i and deploy it on a web server or to develop with Jdeveloper and make it a java application. If some of y= ou
knows any technical paper comparing the two technologies I would be very gratefull.

    TIA,     Tama Szecsy

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