RE: 10g new features question for beta testers

But I thought this was the perfect opportunity for Miracle to fill any perceived gap in support? :)

Pete

"Controlling developers is like herding cats."

Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook

"Oh no, it's not. It's much harder than that!"

Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA

-----Original Message-----
Mogens Nørgaard
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 10:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

It's the Best of Breed versus One Vendor debate, and there are pros and cons galore.

The perfect scenario, of course, is when they combine, so one vendor delivers the best of everything. That's what we have with Microsoft, isn't it? ;-) : Office stuff, OS, Database, ERP, CRM, video player, what

have you...

Then on the Support side of things, it's indeed good to be able to call One Vendor Only... if that vendor is good at Support. If he isn't, you might be better off if you have more than one option for calling.

Mogens

Pete Sharman wrote:

>Just a couple of comments on this which hopefully won't go down the
>Marketing track too far. :)
>
>1. I'm pretty sure Steve Adams agrees with you, since he co-presented
>on ASM at OracleWorld in San Fran. Not sure if he monitors this group
>actively or not, but I believe the presentation he did is loaded with
>all the other OracleWorld 2003 presentations so you can see what he
>said.
>
>2. One point which makes a lot of sense to me, and it happens in a
>variety of places in 10g such as ASM and the RAC clusterware. If you
>have one vendor to raise an issue with (not that you'd need to do that
>with Oracle of course!), it's a lot easier to get an answer without the
>finger pointing that can go on between vendors. Take the clusterware
>example - if you run into a problem running RAC on Sun with the Sun
>Cluster technology and Veritas owning the disk side, who you gonna
call?
>GhostBusters, maybe! But if you're running RAC on Sun with Oracle's
>clusterware and ASM, it's a lot easier to determine who to call.
>
>Pete
>
>"Controlling developers is like herding cats."
>
>Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook
>
>"Oh no, it's not. It's much harder than that!"
>
>Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>Connor McDonald
>Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2003 2:34 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>As with anything I suppose, if a single vendor can be
>in control of more of the stack between application
>and physical server structure then there is a greater
>opportunity for benefits. For example, ASM offers the
>ability to add disks to a stripe without needing to
>redistribute(reload) the entire stripeset.
>
>A (bug-free) ASM product looks very very impressive to
>me. Time will tell how close Oracle are to achieving
>it.
>
>hth
>connor
>
> --- ryan_oracle_at_cox.net wrote: > no ASMs are
>considerably different. Its supposed to
>
>
>>manage everything. You dont give it a file, you give
>>it entire disks and oracle does everything. Sets up
>>files, manages, I/O, everything.
>>
>>you only look at the tablespace level. you dont even
>>install any software on it. If your on SAN, you dont
>>install SAN software on it.
>>
>>
>>>From: "Goulet, Dick" <DGoulet_at_vicr.com>
>>>Date: 2003/12/19 Fri AM 09:14:27 EST
>>>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>>>
>>>
>><ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
>>
>>
>>>Subject: RE: 10g new features question for beta
>>>
>>>
>>testers
>>
>>
>>>That is not exactly a new feature. Oracle 9i has
>>>
>>>
>>Oracle Managed Files where you give it a directory
>>and then just build tablespaces. The database picks
>>the filenames for you. Now mind you it does work,
>>but I'll be damned if I use it in anything other
>>than a development environment. For some reason
>>Oracle has never gotten over that DUMB SAME (Stripe
>>And Mirror Everything) idea. The concept is great
>>in theory, but in practice it's absolutely abysmal
>>at best.
>>
>>
>>>Dick Goulet
>>>Senior Oracle DBA
>>>Oracle Certified 8i DBA
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 8:24 AM
>>>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>>>
>>>
>>>I saw a presentation from Oracle on 10g new
>>>
>>>
>>features last night in Reston,VA. I know atleast one
>>other person from the list was there. Since Oracle
>>is releasing details and its going to be released(in
>>theory) in the next 2 weeks, I was wondering if you
>>guys could talk about it.
>>
>>
>>>1. does ASMs work as well as Oracle claims? I
>>>
>>>
>>always wonder about first generation features...
>>takes most software vendors a couple of generations
>>to get it right(takes any project Im on just as
>>long). This is a radical departure.
>>
>>
>>>for those of you who dont know. Oracle claims that
>>>
>>>
>>they will manage your disks for you. All you do is
>>give Oracle some Raw Disks and Oracle will set up,
>>and handle all your datafiles. All you do is look at
>>logical tablespaces. It will also handle I/O
>>balancing.
>>
>>
>>>How well does this work? Anyone test it with a
>>>
>>>
>>SAN?
>>
>>
>>>2. RAC Load Balancing. Oracle claims that you only
>>>
>>>
>>need Oracle software from now on. They also claim
>>that you can load balance multiple applications.
>>Lets say you have One application that runs batch
>>loads over night and a transactional application
>>during the day.... oracle will automatically steal
>>resources from the other when its not busy...
>>
>>
>>>anyone test this?
>>>
>>>
>>>3. Flashback database. Kyte was the presenter and
>>>
>>>
>>he said that you can keep massive undo areas, so
>>that if you have a failure or delete data you
>>shouldnt have you can have oracle automatically
>>write the DML necessary to bring it back to any
>>point in time. Kyte said that regular EIDE hard
>>drives that you put in home PCs are plenty fast
>>enough for most systems. He recommends getting 4 300
>>GB drives(1.2 TBs) for about $1400 to do this and to
>>make tape backups off of this since they are really
>>slow.
>>
>>
>>>Can any beta testers comment?
>>>
>>>Im pleased with the rename tablespace feature...
>>>
>>>
>>that way I dont have to update TS$ anymore... I
>>wonder if it was our complaining that got them to
>>add it :)
>>
>>
>>>--
>>>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
>>>
>>>
>>http://www.orafaq.net
>>
>>
>>>--
>>>Author: <ryan_oracle_at_cox.net
>>> INET: ryan_oracle_at_cox.net
>>>
>>>Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051
>>>
>>>
>>http://www.fatcity.com
>>
>>
>>>San Diego, California -- Mailing list and
>>>
>>>
>>web hosting services
>>
>>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>>>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
>>>
>>>
>>E-Mail message
>>
>>
>>>to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of
>>>
>>>
>>'ListGuru') and in
>>
>>
>>>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
>>>
>>>
>>ORACLE-L
>>
>>
>>>(or the name of mailing list you want to be
>>>
>>>
>>removed from). You may
>>
>>
>>>also send the HELP command for other information
>>>
>>>
>>(like subscribing).
>>
>>
>>>--
>>>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
>>>
>>>
>>http://www.orafaq.net
>>
>>
>>>--
>>>Author: Goulet, Dick
>>> INET: DGoulet_at_vicr.com
>>>
>>>Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051
>>>
>>>
>>http://www.fatcity.com
>>
>>
>>>San Diego, California -- Mailing list and
>>>
>>>
>>web hosting services
>>
>>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>>>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
>>>
>>>
>>E-Mail message
>>
>>
>>>to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of
>>>
>>>
>>'ListGuru') and in
>>
>>
>>>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
>>>
>>>
>>ORACLE-L
>>
>>
>>>(or the name of mailing list you want to be
>>>
>>>
>>removed from). You may
>>
>>
>>>also send the HELP command for other information
>>>
>>>
>>(like subscribing).
>>
>>
>>--
>>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
>>http://www.orafaq.net
>>--
>>Author: <ryan_oracle_at_cox.net
>> INET: ryan_oracle_at_cox.net
>>
>>Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051
>>http://www.fatcity.com
>>San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web
>>hosting services
>>
>>
>>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
>>E-Mail message
>>to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of
>>'ListGuru') and in
>>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
>>ORACLE-L
>>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
>>from). You may
>>also send the HELP command for other information
>>(like subscribing).
>>
>>
>
>=====
>Connor McDonald
>web: http://www.oracledba.co.uk
>web: http://www.oaktable.net
>email: connor_mcdonald_at_yahoo.com
>
>"GIVE a man a fish and he will eat for a day. But TEACH him how to
fish,
>and...he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day"
>
>_______________________________________________________________________
_
>Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping"
>your friends today! Download Messenger Now
>http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html
>
>

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?=
  INET: mln_at_miracleas.dk

Fat City Network Services    -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
San Diego, California        -- Mailing list and web hosting services
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Pete Sharman
  INET: peter.sharman_at_oracle.com

Fat City Network Services    -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
San Diego, California        -- Mailing list and web hosting services
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).