RE: Oracle Untested Infuriator

Yeah but a GUI should not be required for installing server software. What if I don't want XWindows or Java on my server? Why add dependencies? Oracle was criticized by the IT press know-it-alls for being too hard to administer. So what did they do? They created a GUI installation requirement to make the install "easier."

Eschew obfuscation...

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 1:22 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

So tell us how you really feel, Jeremiah! :)

Seriously, many of the problems you list are actually not OUI problems, but install (the way the install was built, and the dependencies of products being installed). But customers don't separate these (and they should not have to), and OUI gets blamed for it. Fortunately the install and OUI teams are now much closer (same team), as they should be, and hopefully that will help drive requirements from install (of Server and iAS) into OUI and vice versa.

Yeah, I know, the moon is made of green cheese, too ... :)

Pete
"Controlling developers is like herding cats." Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook
"Oh no, it's not. It's much harder than that!" Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA  

-----Original Message-----
Wilton
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 10:27 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Speaking of GUIs, lets hear it for the most horrendous GUI of them all, the nearly unusable Oracle Universal Installer.

Although I avoid it religiously, opting to copy around tarballs instead, I still occasionally must run the installer on my master installation.

Well, the master copy is in Seattle and I am in London. Why? because you have to have a dedicated host not running any instances for use as the master install location, due to the fact that the ORACLE_HOME is hardcoded into all sorts of files, and the thing refuses to run if there is an instance running, even if it isn't going to touch anything that instance is using. If you install in an alternate directory of one of your normal servers, you can never upgrade the thing.

Although our WAN is fairly fast, it is no match for the OUI. You click a button, and 60 seconds later it visibly depresses. Then you wait for the results. Today I discovered that if you install 9.2 and patch it up to 9.2.0.3, you can't add components like JDBC drivers etc. from media without having the OUI automatically DOWNGRADE the Oracle Server binaries in the process. Sure you can copy them into place manually, but they won't get picked up in future upgrades with the... OUI!!

Combine that with incorrect instructions, faulty readme files and just flat out non-QA'd software (oops forgot to make that file executable in the distribution!), and you get one frustrated DBA.

All I can say is the OUI is the biggest piece of crap Oracle has ever produced (maybe I am forgetting Oracle Mail). I can't believe they haven't rearchitected it since its fateful inception and the demise of orainst. Who wouldn't give up a finger to have character mode orainst back?

If I wrote a reliable character mode perl script that does the same thing as runInstaller, does anyone think I could sell it?

The OUI has blown so much of my time this week. Companies should start asking Oracle for license fee discounts equal to the time their expensive DBAs flush down the toilet running the OUI and screwing with broken Oracle software (We have over 10 one-off patches on top of 9.2.0.3).

I hereby declare that I will use all of my powers to get the present OUI scrapped in time for 10i. Stay tuned for updates.

--
Jeremiah Wilton
http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton

On Tue, 20 May 2003, Freeman Robert - IL wrote:



> As for me and my house, we will choose manual migrations over GUI any 

> time.

> 

> 

> Robert 12:23-24

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

> Sent: 5/20/2003 9:31 AM

> 

> No problem, you are more than welcome and for your sarcasm, when 

> you've reached the point where you have done oracle work for 12 

> years(yes clear back to BEFORE MIGRATION ASSISTANTS EXISTED), you can 

> feel free to verbally abuse me, in the mean time:

> 

> BYTE ME.

> 

> joe

> 

> 

> 

> >Thanx a lot for your valuable info' JOE.

> >

> >Regards,

> >Jp.

> 

> 19-5-2003 12:27:52, Joe Testa <jtesta_at_dmc-it.com> wrote:

> 

> 

> >>all migrations/upgrades are done manually,  i've never trusted them

> 

> dang

> 

> >>gui tools

> >>joe

> 

> Joseph S Testa

> Chief Technology Officer

> Data Management Consulting

> p: 614-791-9000

> f: 614-791-9001

> --

> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net

> -- 

> Author: Joseph S Testa

>   INET: jtesta_at_dmc-it.com

> 

-- 
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