RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?

Apparently you dont have any respect for the late Douglas Adams. Tisk Tisk! I'm certianly not saying that NT isnt good for what it was designed to do... workstation/end user platforms. Its a nice way for everyone to not have to think and enjoy pointing and clicking all day. Does windows have the scalability/reliability needed in for a datawarehouse or heavy transaction processing environment? Nope, but then again you probably wouldnt know that cause its out side of the scope of windows :) I'm not here to debate who is smarter than who, I just hate the environment that windows breeds. I'm not a person person. I like to work with computers, and when I have some twit crawling up my ass cause he thinks he knows the ins and outs of networking / data managment / io / resource management cause he pointed and clicked his way into some certificate, it just pisses me off. If all you want to do is set up an exchange server at home fine, but dont assume that you know EVERYTHING about smtp/mail servers/mua and the universe because you pointed and clicked till your fingers were worn down to the nubs setting up your backoffice suite of products 90% of which you will never use and 95% of the products that you actually do use, you wont understand. Windows is a breeding ground for morons. IF (I emphasize IF) a knowledgeable individual sets up a windows machine, it can and often does what it says it can do. Windows doesnt breed and environment that you HAVE to learn what you're doing. Microsoft says that it wants everything to be easy to set up and working together which when it happens its a good thing (although it happens few and far between). The problem is that through years of never having to learn a thing you end up not knowing anything. On a unix machine you HAVE to know what you're doing, what you need to set up and what its specific job is. I have to learn how the parts of the system work together, how the different systems interact, and how everything fits into the whole. Because I know what everything is doing, and how it behaves I can walk up to a windows machine and fix the problem. Windows is easy to use, easy to set up, and IS useful for the day to day things of the average end user. When I walk into a data center at sun, or TI, or nokia, or ericson, or eds, or any fab plant I see rows and rows of sun / hp boxes doing a whole range of high availability services. When I walk into broadwing or aperian or some other co-loc place that hosts a bunch of .com's and see rows of way over priced/powered dell servers hosting the 50 hits a day that averagestartup.com is getting then I think "fine... what has the world lost if that machine goes down? Do you think that this place really was bright enough to hire a knowledgeable person to make the decisions in the first place. I mean come on they're whole company plan is based around <insert crappy idea here>." Its not a coincidence that there are rows of 6500/5500's and e10k's doing the important work and slews of relatively cheap windows machines doing the grunt labor that isnt what fuels the business... and its not cause sun has a great marketing/sales department either (most of those guys dont know their head from their ass). The world is full of generalizations so here's mine: Windows is good for what it does. The average person doesnt have to learn much/anything to use it. It sucks at what it doesnt do, and it doesnt do high availability. As for the quote, its not mine, I just found it amusing. I dont constantly complain about windows because I dont use it, but then again, I dont like to sit on my ass as others pass 3rd rate information about a 3rd rate os on to others... all that breeds is some more 3rd rate people ;) All I'm doing is protecting my sanity/nerves by having a few less morons out there, but as I can see its already too late for some :)

Thanks,
jon

"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into it in the first place."

• Douglas Adams

"If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done."

• Scott Adams

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Kevin wrote:

> Actually, I read it on my Palm Pilot, it must not have come through because
> the Palm isn't Unix based. I'll get on coding that first thing in the
> morning! Or perhaps, it's because you never said it. Don't worry, I am
> reeeally impressed with your use of big words and how much you want to stand
> up for you loving OS. If you would like you post your resume, IQ score, SAT
> scores, Certifications and anything else for your sig instead of that quote
> about Bill Gates. I don't know, I am sensing a little anger and jealousy
> here towards poor old Bill!:)
> P.S. Keep it coming, this has been the most fun that my Exchange server has
> ever delivered, I just hope it's up to the task:)
>
> KK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 7:09 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Never said that. In fact if you read back a little further I specifically
> say "NT is good for the desktop." Or did your exchange server not deliver
> that message? Perhaps a nice little vb script held your outlook session
> hostage and you werent able to get the e-mail. Good thing for reply
> messages, right? All I'm saying is that NT really doesnt have a place in a
> 5 9 env, pretty simple eh? When you reboot your laptop everynight, and
> dont care about nasty memory leaks on your workstation with too much ram
> cause you work for a fancy startup w/ too much venture capital, then NT is
> wonderful. Easy to use, and if you dont want to think and have a lot of
> patience for things breaking that are beyond your control, and excellent
> product for end users.
>
> Thanks,
> jon
>
>
> "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
> lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the
> fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into
> it in the first place."
>
> -- Douglas Adams
>
> "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you
> how it's done."
>
> -- Scott Adams
>
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Kevin Kostyszyn wrote:
>
> > Ooohhhhh...wow! Quick, maybe we should run out and convince 90% of the
> > business world that their entire infrastructure is a complete and udder
> pipe
> > dream and that the idea of trying to simplify our lives with the GUI is
> also
> > just a big fat waste of time. Then everyone can get rid of their
> computers
> > that have windows and Unix can take over the world. Yeah...archaic coding
> > at a monochrome terminal..jeez the future looks so bright!!!!
> > KK
> > :)
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:12 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > No doubt that came from your redhat Linux box cause you wanted to dabble
> > in playing with a real os (and I'm certainly not saying that rh isn't
> > crap), till you found out that it was too "hard" cause you couldn't use
> > your mouse on a console (ok, gdm, but nm that). Yet you probably tell
> > others that you've used both extensively and find NT to be the "better" :)
> > Why? cause you got a 2.2 kernel to install on a referb dell box? When you
> > priorities become io throughput, domain utilization, rebuilding your rt
> > scheduler to handle the demand of certain applications, fail-over on 10
> > million dollar machines, and multipathing to arrays that have more
> > computing power than your whole fleet of NT boxes, instead of getting a
> > smile cause you "figured" out how to point and click your way to happiness
> > w/ windows Active directory or IIS, then you can mock me :)
> >
> > Thanks,
> > jon
> >
> >
> > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
> > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the
> > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them
> into
> > it in the first place."
> >
> > -- Douglas Adams
> >
> > "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you
> > how it's done."
> >
> > -- Scott Adams
> >
> > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote:
> >
> > > :)
> > > You caught me, Jon. Your numeric perspicacity and
> > > penetrating, thoughtful analysis of the NT development
> > > effort has really got me re-evaluating my operating
> > > system worldview.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jon Allen [mailto:jon_at_slurpee.org]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:56 PM
> > > To: Mohan, Ross
> > > Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
> > >
> > >
> > > why doesnt anyone just compare the platforms that the respective nt/unix
> > > versions run on? I dont really care for intel from square one, much less
> a
> > > proprietary bloated, over marketed, under reliable software to run on
> top
> > > of it :) I think it just boils down to... you cant admin a unix system
> > > properly if you dont care, and if you care, you dont want to admin NT,
> so
> > > all that NT has behind it is a bunch of non-caring hs dropouts who got
> > > their mcse and are working on a cisco certification. Not saying that
> linux
> > > hasnt brought a slew of script kiddies into the unix melting pot... but
> > > atleast they atempt to care and are easy to manage "time to apply some
> > > patches before some script kiddies nail my ass" :) Are you sure that
> there
> > > arent a few extra digits in that uptime there bud? ;) We could invent
> more
> > > reasonable values that pre-epoch (hell, even pre-digital computer) in
> the
> > > future.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > jon
> > >
> > >
> > > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
> > > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores
> the
> > > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them
> > into
> > > it in the first place."
> > >
> > > -- Douglas Adams
> > >
> > > "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show
> you
> > > how it's done."
> > >
> > > -- Scott Adams
> > >
> > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote:
> > >
> > > > Here's my Unix box:
> > > >
> > > > # uptime
> > > > 12:09 pm up 32,245 days, 1:01, 14543 users, load average: 120.19,
> > > > 430.48, 3450.70
> > > >
> > > > Here's my NT box:
> > > >
> > > > # uptime
> > > > 12:09 pm up 1 days, 1:01, 1 users, load average: 0.019, 0.008,
> > > 0.00070
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So, obviously, NT sucks. <dusting off hands>.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:16 PM
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Well, my UNIX box would probably run forever except that the DDS3 tape
> > > > changer can't seem to last a whole year without breaking. Need to shut
> > the
> > > > machine down to replace the tape changer. I'm hoping to get lucky this
> > > year.
> > > > Only 120 days till victory!
> > > >
> > > > # uptime
> > > > 12:09 pm up 245 days, 1:01, 4 users, load average: 0.19, 0.48,
> 0.70
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 9:26 AM
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, 25 Jun 2001,Mohan, Ross scribbled on the wall in glitter
> crayon:
> > > >
> > > > ->I agree with His Chrisness on this one.
> > > > ->
> > > > ->If the avg(NT Admin) > avg(Unix Admin), we'd
> > > > ->all be reading this mail on Window's boxes.
> > > > ->Er.....what I mean to say is......
> > > > ->
> > > > -><sly grin>
> > > > ->
> > > > ->but, in all seriousness....when there is a way
> > > > ->to find a *very good* NT admin out of all the
> > > > ->Wendy's employees, then NT boxes will be up
> > > > ->4 or 5 nines, easy.
> > > > ->
> > > > ->Besides guys, "five nines" means you're down
> > > > ->about FIVE MINUTES a year.
> > > > ->
> > > > ->Now, how many of the Unix boxes on this list
> > > > ->have done that this year? I bet less than
> > > > ->one percent.
> > > >
> > > > well, then there must be a whole lot of unix boxes out there because
> > we've
> > > > got 40 of them right here. i'd say all of my 32 databases have been
> up
> > > that
> > > > much too, but i've only had 25 of them up a whole year.;-) yup, i
> know
> > > i've
> > > > been lucky.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Bill "Shrek" Thater Certifiable ORACLE DBA
> > > > Telergy, Inc. thaterw_at_telergy.net
> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > > You gotta program like you don't need the money,
> > > > You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt,
> > > > You gotta run like there's nobody watching,
> > > > It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work.
> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > > Expert systems are built to embody the knowledge of human experts. -
> > > > Kulawiec
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > > --
> > > > Author: Thater, William
> > > > INET: ThaterW_at_telergy.net
> > > >
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> > > > Author: Sherman, Edward
> > > > INET: shermanej_at_eccic.com
> > > >
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> > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > > --
> > > > Author: Mohan, Ross
> > > > INET: MohanR_at_STARS-SMI.com
> > > >
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> > >
> >
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > --
> > Author: Jon Allen
> > INET: jon_at_slurpee.org
> >
> > Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
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> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > --
> > Author: Kevin Kostyszyn
> > INET: kevin_at_dulcian.com
> >
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>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Jon Allen
> INET: jon_at_slurpee.org
>
> Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
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> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Kevin
> INET: kevin_at_dulcian.com
>
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-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Jon Allen
  INET: jon_at_slurpee.org

Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
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