RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?

Whilst I wholeheartedly agree. Whoa less caffeine :-)

Peter

At 05:10 PM 26/06/2001 -0800, you wrote:
>Apparently you dont have any respect for the late Douglas Adams. Tisk
>Tisk! I'm certianly not saying that NT isnt good for what it was designed
>to do... workstation/end user platforms. Its a nice way for everyone to
>not have to think and enjoy pointing and clicking all day. Does windows
>have the scalability/reliability needed in for a datawarehouse or heavy
>transaction processing environment? Nope, but then again you probably
>wouldnt know that cause its out side of the scope of windows :) I'm not
>here to debate who is smarter than who, I just hate the environment that
>windows breeds. I'm not a person person. I like to work with computers,
>and when I have some twit crawling up my ass cause he thinks he knows the
>ins and outs of networking / data managment / io / resource management
>cause he pointed and clicked his way into some certificate, it just pisses
>me off. If all you want to do is set up an exchange server at home fine,
>but dont assume that you know EVERYTHING about smtp/mail servers/mua and
>the universe because you pointed and clicked till your fingers were worn
>down to the nubs setting up your backoffice suite of products 90% of which
>you will never use and 95% of the products that you actually do use, you
>wont understand. Windows is a breeding ground for morons. IF (I emphasize
>IF) a knowledgeable individual sets up a windows machine, it can and often
>does what it says it can do. Windows doesnt breed and environment that you
>HAVE to learn what you're doing. Microsoft says that it wants everything
>to be easy to set up and working together which when it happens its a good
>thing (although it happens few and far between). The problem is that
>through years of never having to learn a thing you end up not knowing
>anything. On a unix machine you HAVE to know what you're doing, what you
>need to set up and what its specific job is. I have to learn how the parts
>of the system work together, how the different systems interact, and how
>everything fits into the whole. Because I know what everything is doing,
>and how it behaves I can walk up to a windows machine and fix the problem.
>Windows is easy to use, easy to set up, and IS useful for the day to day
>things of the average end user. When I walk into a data center at sun, or
>TI, or nokia, or ericson, or eds, or any fab plant I see rows and rows of
>sun / hp boxes doing a whole range of high availability services. When I
>walk into broadwing or aperian or some other co-loc place that hosts a
>bunch of .com's and see rows of way over priced/powered dell servers
>hosting the 50 hits a day that averagestartup.com is getting then I think
>"fine... what has the world lost if that machine goes down? Do you think
>that this place really was bright enough to hire a knowledgeable person to
>make the decisions in the first place. I mean come on they're whole
>company plan is based around <insert crappy idea here>." Its not a
>coincidence that there are rows of 6500/5500's and e10k's doing the
>important work and slews of relatively cheap windows machines doing the
>grunt labor that isnt what fuels the business... and its not cause sun has
>a great marketing/sales department either (most of those guys dont know
>their head from their ass). The world is full of generalizations so here's
>mine: Windows is good for what it does. The average person doesnt have to
>learn much/anything to use it. It sucks at what it doesnt do, and it
>doesnt do high availability. As for the quote, its not mine, I just found
>it amusing. I dont constantly complain about windows because I dont use
>it, but then again, I dont like to sit on my ass as others pass 3rd rate
>information about a 3rd rate os on to others... all that breeds is some
>more 3rd rate people ;) All I'm doing is protecting my sanity/nerves by
>having a few less morons out there, but as I can see its already too late
>for some :)
>
>Thanks,
>jon
>
>
>"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
>lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the
>fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them
>into it in the first place."
>
>-- Douglas Adams
>
>"If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you
>how it's done."
>
>-- Scott Adams
>
>On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Kevin wrote:
>
> > Actually, I read it on my Palm Pilot, it must not have come through because
> > the Palm isn't Unix based. I'll get on coding that first thing in the
> > morning! Or perhaps, it's because you never said it. Don't worry, I am
> > reeeally impressed with your use of big words and how much you want to
> stand
> > up for you loving OS. If you would like you post your resume, IQ
> score, SAT
> > scores, Certifications and anything else for your sig instead of that quote
> > about Bill Gates. I don't know, I am sensing a little anger and jealousy
> > here towards poor old Bill!:)
> > P.S. Keep it coming, this has been the most fun that my Exchange
> server has
> > ever delivered, I just hope it's up to the task:)
> >
> > KK
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 7:09 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > Never said that. In fact if you read back a little further I specifically
> > say "NT is good for the desktop." Or did your exchange server not deliver
> > that message? Perhaps a nice little vb script held your outlook session
> > hostage and you werent able to get the e-mail. Good thing for reply
> > messages, right? All I'm saying is that NT really doesnt have a place in a
> > 5 9 env, pretty simple eh? When you reboot your laptop everynight, and
> > dont care about nasty memory leaks on your workstation with too much ram
> > cause you work for a fancy startup w/ too much venture capital, then NT is
> > wonderful. Easy to use, and if you dont want to think and have a lot of
> > patience for things breaking that are beyond your control, and excellent
> > product for end users.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > jon
> >
> >
> > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
> > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the
> > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into
> > it in the first place."
> >
> > -- Douglas Adams
> >
> > "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you
> > how it's done."
> >
> > -- Scott Adams
> >
> > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Kevin Kostyszyn wrote:
> >
> > > Ooohhhhh...wow! Quick, maybe we should run out and convince 90% of the
> > > business world that their entire infrastructure is a complete and udder
> > pipe
> > > dream and that the idea of trying to simplify our lives with the GUI is
> > also
> > > just a big fat waste of time. Then everyone can get rid of their
> > computers
> > > that have windows and Unix can take over the world. Yeah...archaic
> coding
> > > at a monochrome terminal..jeez the future looks so bright!!!!
> > > KK
> > > :)
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 5:12 PM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > >
> > >
> > > No doubt that came from your redhat Linux box cause you wanted to dabble
> > > in playing with a real os (and I'm certainly not saying that rh isn't
> > > crap), till you found out that it was too "hard" cause you couldn't use
> > > your mouse on a console (ok, gdm, but nm that). Yet you probably tell
> > > others that you've used both extensively and find NT to be the
> "better" :)
> > > Why? cause you got a 2.2 kernel to install on a referb dell box? When you
> > > priorities become io throughput, domain utilization, rebuilding your rt
> > > scheduler to handle the demand of certain applications, fail-over on 10
> > > million dollar machines, and multipathing to arrays that have more
> > > computing power than your whole fleet of NT boxes, instead of getting a
> > > smile cause you "figured" out how to point and click your way to
> happiness
> > > w/ windows Active directory or IIS, then you can mock me :)
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > jon
> > >
> > >
> > > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
> > > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly
> ignores the
> > > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them
> > into
> > > it in the first place."
> > >
> > > -- Douglas Adams
> > >
> > > "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you
> > > how it's done."
> > >
> > > -- Scott Adams
> > >
> > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote:
> > >
> > > > :)
> > > > You caught me, Jon. Your numeric perspicacity and
> > > > penetrating, thoughtful analysis of the NT development
> > > > effort has really got me re-evaluating my operating
> > > > system worldview.
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Jon Allen [mailto:jon_at_slurpee.org]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 3:56 PM
> > > > To: Mohan, Ross
> > > > Cc: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > why doesnt anyone just compare the platforms that the respective
> nt/unix
> > > > versions run on? I dont really care for intel from square one, much
> less
> > a
> > > > proprietary bloated, over marketed, under reliable software to run on
> > top
> > > > of it :) I think it just boils down to... you cant admin a unix system
> > > > properly if you dont care, and if you care, you dont want to admin NT,
> > so
> > > > all that NT has behind it is a bunch of non-caring hs dropouts who got
> > > > their mcse and are working on a cisco certification. Not saying that
> > linux
> > > > hasnt brought a slew of script kiddies into the unix melting pot... but
> > > > atleast they atempt to care and are easy to manage "time to apply some
> > > > patches before some script kiddies nail my ass" :) Are you sure that
> > there
> > > > arent a few extra digits in that uptime there bud? ;) We could invent
> > more
> > > > reasonable values that pre-epoch (hell, even pre-digital computer) in
> > the
> > > > future.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > jon
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining
> armor to
> > > > lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores
> > the
> > > > fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them
> > > into
> > > > it in the first place."
> > > >
> > > > -- Douglas Adams
> > > >
> > > > "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show
> > you
> > > > how it's done."
> > > >
> > > > -- Scott Adams
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Mohan, Ross wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Here's my Unix box:
> > > > >
> > > > > # uptime
> > > > > 12:09 pm up 32,245 days, 1:01, 14543 users, load average:
> 120.19,
> > > > > 430.48, 3450.70
> > > > >
> > > > > Here's my NT box:
> > > > >
> > > > > # uptime
> > > > > 12:09 pm up 1 days, 1:01, 1 users, load average: 0.019, 0.008,
> > > > 0.00070
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So, obviously, NT sucks. <dusting off hands>.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:16 PM
> > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, my UNIX box would probably run forever except that the DDS3
> tape
> > > > > changer can't seem to last a whole year without breaking. Need to
> shut
> > > the
> > > > > machine down to replace the tape changer. I'm hoping to get lucky
> this
> > > > year.
> > > > > Only 120 days till victory!
> > > > >
> > > > > # uptime
> > > > > 12:09 pm up 245 days, 1:01, 4 users, load average: 0.19, 0.48,
> > 0.70
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 9:26 AM
> > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, 25 Jun 2001,Mohan, Ross scribbled on the wall in glitter
> > crayon:
> > > > >
> > > > > ->I agree with His Chrisness on this one.
> > > > > ->
> > > > > ->If the avg(NT Admin) > avg(Unix Admin), we'd
> > > > > ->all be reading this mail on Window's boxes.
> > > > > ->Er.....what I mean to say is......
> > > > > ->
> > > > > -><sly grin>
> > > > > ->
> > > > > ->but, in all seriousness....when there is a way
> > > > > ->to find a *very good* NT admin out of all the
> > > > > ->Wendy's employees, then NT boxes will be up
> > > > > ->4 or 5 nines, easy.
> > > > > ->
> > > > > ->Besides guys, "five nines" means you're down
> > > > > ->about FIVE MINUTES a year.
> > > > > ->
> > > > > ->Now, how many of the Unix boxes on this list
> > > > > ->have done that this year? I bet less than
> > > > > ->one percent.
> > > > >
> > > > > well, then there must be a whole lot of unix boxes out there because
> > > we've
> > > > > got 40 of them right here. i'd say all of my 32 databases have been
> > up
> > > > that
> > > > > much too, but i've only had 25 of them up a whole year.;-) yup, i
> > know
> > > > i've
> > > > > been lucky.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Bill "Shrek" Thater Certifiable ORACLE DBA
> > > > > Telergy, Inc. thaterw_at_telergy.net
> > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > > > You gotta program like you don't need the money,
> > > > > You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt,
> > > > > You gotta run like there's nobody watching,
> > > > > It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work.
> > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > > > Expert systems are built to embody the knowledge of human experts. -
> > > > > Kulawiec
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > > > --
> > > > > Author: Thater, William
> > > > > INET: ThaterW_at_telergy.net
> > > > >
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> > > > > Author: Sherman, Edward
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> > > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
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> > > > > Author: Mohan, Ross
> > > > > INET: MohanR_at_STARS-SMI.com
> > > > >
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> > >
> > > --
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > --
> > > Author: Jon Allen
> > > INET: jon_at_slurpee.org
> > >
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> > > --
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > --
> > > Author: Kevin Kostyszyn
> > > INET: kevin_at_dulcian.com
> > >
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>--
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>Author: Jon Allen
> INET: jon_at_slurpee.org
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-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Peter McLarty
  INET: peter.mclarty_at_incts.com

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