Re: Would be really nice if...

From: Haximus <e_at_t.me>
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 01:06:52 GMT
Message-ID: <421E79B3.3030203@t.me>

Joel Garry wrote:
> fitzjarrell_at_cox.net wrote:
>

>>Haximus wrote:

>
>

>>>Please tell me which Oracle DML/DDL doesn't have a direct natural
>>>language equivalent?  It's 'natural' to mold technology to

>
> recognize
>
> "Select" - try to explain it in non-computer terms.

That's the point - SELECT is plain English, it's self-explanatory, the scope of it's meaning and intent applies to SQL or buying donuts.. "would you care to SELECT a donut with your coffee sir?" Subject, predicate, perhaps a clause or two - SQL is indeed modeled after natural language and it's structure.

>>>human language interfaces, that's what makes technology easily
>>
>>adoptable
>>
>>>by the masses, that's what makes business more productive, and

>
> that's
>
> Hmmm, whatever happened to that "you'll never need programmers again"
> stuff?
>
> Oh, and don't forget the "productivity paradox." (google for it)

I recall that claim, oh about 1985, that programmers would become obsolete because computers would programs themselves.... bwahahahaha!!!   Didn't happen, did it? That's why productivity tools and "shortcuts" are so much in demand - not because people are lazy but because there is a always a "better way," and people naturally want to be more productive.

>>>what makes Oracle lots of money.  You must really yearn for the

>
> days
>

>>>when the pocket-protector gang with the horn-rimmed glasses were

>
> the
>

>>>only ones who could talk to a database.

>
>
> Sometimes, I do. I remember my friend's dad in the mid-60's - Taylor
> step-cabin (cuddy-cabin boat with built Chevy big-block), Porsche C,
> Chrysler T&C with the 440, house by Cliff May, gorgeous wife,
> studio-quality stereo with the turntable mounted on the wall... When
> Geeks Were Men.

You mean you don't have that! Get to work buddy! ;)

>>Presume all you like, your 'doughnut' analogy is rife with holes.

>
> SQL
>

>>does not communicate between two people, it communicates between man
>>and machine, something your 'doughnut' example doesn't cover.  Saying

>
>
> Actually, most SQL these days communicates between machine and machine
> - something it was not really primarily designed for.

True, but the SQL has to originate from somewhere, computers generally don't initiate uncommanded conversations amongst themselves ... yet.

>>"Give me one of everything except the glazed" to another human is one
>>thing, as the person on the receiving end can easily discern what is
>>available and what is not, whereas your 'select * except ...'

>
> business
>

>>has no logical counterpart; you get what you ask for, even to the

>
> point
>

>>of having an application break due to unhandled columns as

>
> illustrated
>

>>earlier by Daniel.  The SQL engine removes only what you tell it in
>>your suggested syntax; it has no method of knowing that what you
>>wanted, and received, before is the same as what you want now, table
>>changes or not.  "Hey, someone added col4 to that table, but the last
>>time I got this query I sent out col1 and col3, so that's all I'll

>
> send
>

>>out now."  The doughnut guy, if you're a regular customer, can, and
>>possibly will have your order ready to go as you walk in the door
>>(depending upon just how regular a customer you are).  He or she will
>>know what you want and what you don't, somethiing that cannot be said
>>about 'select * except bubba from cletus;', no matter how you try to
>>gild it.

>
>
> It makes a lot more sense when you layer a tool on top of SQL that can
> do such strange things, given the requirement - just doesn't make sense
> trying to torture SQL into doing it natively.

An auto-expand feature would be nice compromise in sqlplus, type in an pattern matching expression and have it automagically expand matching columns, sort of similar to LIKE in functionality, or even implement regular expressions (overkill). JDeveloper has a nice auto-complete feature in it's SQL worksheet which is kind of nice, but it only speed things up a little. Received on Thu Feb 24 2005 - 19:06:52 CST