Re: How long will 8.1.7 survive?

Hi Fred and all,

You all make good points (those of you that took my Gran story and walked all over it ;)

If it ain't broke don't fix it is hard to argue against and I agree in many ways to what you've said.

However, I believe the issue could be more of "it ain't running too efficiently but I don't really know to fix it" if you know what I mean. I understand people saying "but there's no new features we really need, so why move" but what about the hidden issues. Such as newer versions having more efficient code, or optimizer improvements, or features that could provide performance improvements if only implemented and tested (maybe bitmap joins or materialized views or whatever would be perfect), or issues such as migration leaps and steep learning curves (approximately 13 days of New feature training between 7 and 9i) or DBA career plans and work satisfaction and morale and DBA turnover, and the possible support issues, etc. The potential list goes on.

Using software and being skilled in technologies that is 7ish years old is fine to a point if everything is dandy. However, if I were to work in such an environment, I would be both really curious to know what the latest technologies had to offer, be concerned if my competitors (depending of course on your organisation) were more up to date than we were and be really really concerned if the majority of my peers were skilled and proficient in a technological area that I have my career and livelihood dependent on whereas I was 7 years behind.

I actually believe that an organisations and an individuals well being are very closely connected (or should be in successful environments). When the balance is too much one way or the other, significant issues generally pop up. If I was a DBA at a site that refused to move from Oracle7, then I would consider that a significant issue for me personally and would seriously look to move on elsewhere. That should then be a significant issue for the organisation to take some action.

I drove a 1974 HQ Holden for 6 six long years. When I eventually bought a new Ford Falcon, I wish I did it years ago. The power steering, the air conditioning, the CD player (I can even listen to Bowie in the back), the ABS brakes, the airbag, the comfort and handling not to mention the improved fuel efficiency, boy I honestly didn't know what I was missing ;)

Cheers

Richard
"Fred Pierce" <fpierce_at_avialantic.com> wrote in message news:3D8877CB.E9D5B75_at_avialantic.com...
> Richard,
>
> I think your last sentence - "Now, do you really want to be like my Gran
> when you go for a job and they ask you questions on 9i ..." - is
> interesting. What's good for the DBA may not always be what is good for
> the enterprise. From a DBA's perspective, complexity and change is good
> - keeps us busy and hopefully marketable. From the enterprise's
> perspective, it means more database work, ergo more or more expensive
> DBA's, increasing hardware requirements etc. If the application works
> fine on the existing version, is stable and no changes are planned, what
> advantage is it to the enterprise to add more capability etc. other than
> avoiding the planned obsolesence of the database platform? If the
> application will run just as well on the new improved MySQL, would it be
> in my best interest to recommend dropping the Oracle license and going
> GNU after investing years in learning how to spell Orcale?
>
> The software industry does have a habit of coercing their customers into
> upgrades, e.g. the old one isn't supported or something essential won't
> work with it anymore. Since once committed to a platform, it's hard to
> change, the customer hasn't a lot of options. In the world I envision, a
> customer would upgrade when they had a need for a new feature,
> capability etc. or realized a real benefit in performance, security and
> the like, not be forced to by the vendor. Purchasing extended support
> might be an option in some cases.
>
> As you described though, in most cases it's better to keep up than to
> have to make a giant leap from having waited for too many versions. I
> just start planning for the next version as soon as the present one is
> installed. Nevertheless I wonder sometimes whatever happened to "if it
> ain't broke, don't fix it."
>
> fdp
>
> P.S. Oh yeah - I'm driving an '88 car. Just can't think of a reason to
> upgrade.
>
> --------------------------------------------
> Fred Pierce (DNRC)
> Avialantic.com fpierce_at_avialantic.com
> www.avialantic.com
> MAAM Transportation Show 2002 - Sept. 21-22
> www.maam.org/transhow.html
> -------------------------------------------
>
> Richard Foote wrote:
> >
> > Hi Tingl,
> >
> > My dear old gran, she loved her gramophone, playing such golden oldies
as
> > "We'll Meet Again", "White Xmas", "When The Saints Go Marching In" and
"A
> > Space Oddity". Those old 78s would have a few scratches and sound a bit
> > rough, but when the horn was freshly dusted, gee they sounded good.
Nothing
> > wrong with them at all, they worked just great.
> >
> > Unfortunately, when the latest Daniel O'Donnell DVD come out, she was
> > stuffed. She had no idea what to do, how to work it, how to set it up,
had
> > no understanding of surround sound, how to use the remote, how to play
it or
> > even where to put the DVD ("but Richard my dear favourite gran son,
where
> > the hell is the horn on this thing, the damn horn"). It took her over 2
> > hours to work out how to open the case (she was getting on a bit).
> >
> > Now, do you really want to be like my Gran when you go for a job and
they
> > ask you questions on 9i ....
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Richard
> > "tingl" <tlam15_at_hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:f487699f.0209160957.2c4d3c51_at_posting.google.com...
> > > Nuno Souto <nsouto_at_optushome.com.au.nospam> wrote in message
> > news:<3d8336f8$0$18869$afc38c87_at_news.optusnet.com.au>...
> > > > 13 Sep 2002 14:20:29 -0700, tingl said (and I quote):
> > > > >
> > > > > Just launch the installer or any Java based utilities come with
8i,
> > > > > see how much memory jre is taking up and how much slower they run.
No
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, but that's hardly Oracle's fault that the jre eats memory, no?
> > > > Try a later jre. I find they use less memory since 1.3 came out.
> > > >
> > >
> > > No, Oracle only makes the decision to use Java for that purpose.
> > >
> > > > > In many respects, I find 7.3.4 easier to manage than 8i. At least
I
> > > > > don't have to worry about the features I don't need, even the
patches
> > > > > are much smaller.
> > > >
> > > > Hmm, obviously you don't have to do much space management in that
> > > > database... And moving stuff around. And fine tuning.
> > > >
> > >
> > > You are right and it should not be much work to do it in 7.3.4 either.
> > >
> > > > > features and have to find out how to remove them. I have never
heard
> > > > > anybody said 7.3 tunning is harder than 8i.
> > > >
> > > > Yet it is. There is not much you can do in 7 to tune the database
> > > > itself. 8i has so much more that can be done it's not even funny to
> > > > compare. Start with the LMTs and the multiple buffer pools and IOT
and
> > > > go from there. I won't even mention the function-based indexes.
Oops,
> > I
> > > > just did! ;)
> > > >
> > >
> > > I have to disagree. There is a great deal can be tuned in 7.3.4. More
> > > features do not have to mean better. Many people convert to LMT just
> > > because it is a new feature. In reality, if the database is properly
> > > configured there is no need to do so. Many Java based utilities like
> > > database and network configuration tools tend to be unreliable, I
> > > often resort to doing them manually anyway. BTW, I do not use the
> > > features above as they do not benefit our applications.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > Why buy a VCR with multitude of functions, when all you need is
> > > > > playback. It just makes it harder to find the "play" button on
your
> > > > > remote.
> > > >
> > > > You may find that most VCR's with multitude of functions also have a
> > much
> > > > better image quality and can rewind/fast forward a lot quicker.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately this is not completely true for 8i. If Oracle 8i's new
> > > features does not benefit the applications I am using, then it is not
> > > any faster than 7.3.4 on my existing hardware. The bottom line
> > > question is: If 7.3.4 gives me everything I need, what is the need to
> > > upgrade?
Received on Wed Sep 18 2002 - 08:58:12 CDT