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RE: Re[2]: What Sort of Privilege?

From: Nelson, Allan <anelson_at_miswaco.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:59:55 -0500
Message-ID: <7E0DB3A126BA9146AC30744E2B7E42459743C6@midhouhqxch01.net.smith.com> 





Some motivation for a single schema is that the number of synonyms
needed by apps and apps_mrc are causing performance problems.  How
really knows what Oracle may chose to include in any release.  I'm doing
an upgrade from 11.5.7 to 11.5.9 and the new one is really, really
different.  Sigh.



Allan



-----Original Message-----


=46rom: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org



[mailto:oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org] On Behalf Of Mark W. Farnham
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 7:23 AM
To: oracle-l_at_freelists.org


Subject: RE: Re[2]: What Sort of Privilege=3F




One log on for use has been in place for some time. So "apps" gets all
the synonyms, views, packages, and all important cross schema grants,
but there are still many schema owners so the purpose of various tables
and the architecture of individual product groups has some chance of
being an understandable total.



The big advance was from logging on, as, say PO, to use purchasing, and
therefore needing grants to PO for various other schema' objects. As the
number of schema owners grew, figuring out the required grants was a
nightmare and the number of dictionary entries to support the grants for
each applications schema grew on the order of some exponential or


=66actorial based on the number of schema owners and the number of tables

and packages in each schema needing access from other schemas. When it
got bad enough, creating a single log on user at least got the number of
dictionary entries down to linear growth based on the total number of
tables.



(My apologies if you get cold sweats in remembrance of these exponential
number of grants nightmares, which you've likely suppressed as well as
you're able.)



Now, as for whether there is a move afoot to actually migrate to a
single schema, I'm guessing that would cause major heartburn in lieu of
an alter table clause that changed the schema of a table on the order of
expense of updating the dictionary and invalidating dependent security
references as needed. I don't think that exists. Too many pages in the
manual to be sure, but I scanned alter table and checked for the
non-existance (to my ability to search) of alter owner. I'm not sure
what else it might get named.



Then again I may have missed a message on a direction.



mwf



-----Original Message-----


=46rom: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org



[mailto:oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org]On Behalf Of Cary Millsap
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 10:35 AM


To: oracle-l_at_freelists.org


Subject: RE: Re[2]: What Sort of Privilege=3F




Aren't the new Oracle E-Business applications moving to a
single-schema-for-everything model=3F




Cary Millsap


Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.


http://www.hotsos.com


* Nullius in verba *



Upcoming events:


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Toronto


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- Hotsos Symposium 2005: March 6-10 Dallas
- Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...




-----Original Message-----


=46rom: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org



[mailto:oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org]


On Behalf Of Goulet, Dick


Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 8:50 AM


To: oracle-l_at_freelists.org


Subject: RE: Re[2]: What Sort of Privilege=3F



On this issue it would appear so!!  ;-)



Dick Goulet


Senior Oracle DBA


Oracle Certified 8i DBA



-----Original Message-----


=46rom: Mercadante, Thomas F [mailto:thomas.mercadante_at_labor.state.ny.us]

Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 9:16 AM


To: 'oracle-l_at_freelists.org'


Subject: RE: Re[2]: What Sort of Privilege=3F




Dick,



Am I 100% wrong=3F  :)



Tom Mercadante


Oracle Certified Professional




-----Original Message-----


=46rom: Goulet, Dick [mailto:DGoulet_at_vicr.com]=3D20

Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 9:12 AM


To: oracle-l_at_freelists.org


Subject: RE: Re[2]: What Sort of Privilege=3F




Tom,



        Sorry, but you are wrong.  I prefer the many schema method as
well.



Dick Goulet


Senior Oracle DBA


Oracle Certified 8i DBA



-----Original Message-----


=46rom: Mercadante, Thomas F [mailto:thomas.mercadante_at_labor.state.ny.us]

Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 8:21 AM


To: 'oracle-l_at_freelists.org'


Subject: RE: Re[2]: What Sort of Privilege=3F




Jo,



Well,  The Oracle Apps applications have many schema's - much like what


=3D =3D3D you described. I'm guessing that the majority of home-grown

applications have only one schema for all of the tables.  I could be
wrong.  In my =3D view, it is =3D3D easier to manage.  Everything is in one
place.  It prevents =3D you from creating =3D3D two database objects with
the same name.  Managing security =3D is easier - =3D3D again, you can issue
all your grants from one schema, =3D rather than needing to =3D3D keep
re-logging in.



Maybe it's just me!



Tom Mercadante


Oracle Certified Professional




-----Original Message-----


=46rom: jo_holvoet_at_amis.com [mailto:jo_holvoet_at_amis.com]=3D3D20

Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 8:13 AM


To: oracle-l_at_freelists.org


Cc: 'oracle-l_at_freelists.org'; oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
Subject: RE: Re[2]: What Sort of Privilege=3F




Hi Tom,



we (well, it was in place before I got here, but anyway) basically =3D
have=3D3D20 one schema per application. We also have one schema which
houses =3D3D "common"=3D3D20 data, i.e. data used in many different
places/apps; e.g. employees,=3D3D20 customers, products, plants, .... So
we have many =3D cross-schema FKs to =3D3D the=3D3D20 "common" data but
outside that everything is pretty =3D well partitioned.=3D3D20 Maybe that's
why I've never really had any problems =3D with it.



Is having what is basically a one-schema database common practice =3F



mvg/regards



Jo








"Mercadante, Thomas F" <thomas.mercadante_at_labor.state.ny.us>
Sent by: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org


08/24/2004 14:03


Please respond to oracle-l



=3D3D20


        To:     "'oracle-l_at_freelists.org'" <oracle-l_at_freelists.org>
        cc:=3D3D20
        Subject:        RE: Re[2]: What Sort of Privilege=3F






Jo,



I guess I should clarify.



If you made a consious decision to maintain multiple schema's within =3D3D


=3D your database, then it is your choice.




I prefer one schema holding all of the database tables that make up the
corporate-wide application.



Tom Mercadante


Oracle Certified Professional




-----Original Message-----


=46rom: jo_holvoet_at_amis.com [mailto:jo_holvoet_at_amis.com]=3D3D20

Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 7:58 AM


To: oracle-l_at_freelists.org


Cc: 'oracle-l_at_freelists.org'; oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
Subject: RE: Re[2]: What Sort of Privilege=3F




Not sure about that. We have for example an employee table that is=3D3D20
referenced just about everywhere (e.g. which salesperson is =3D
responsible=3D3D20 for this customer, which employee registered for this
training =3D course,=3D3D20 which operator filed this incident report, ...).
These are all different =3D =3D3D



apps/schemas referencing this table so I don't see how we can avoid=3D3D20
cross-schema FKs.



mvg/regards



Jo








"Mercadante, Thomas F" <thomas.mercadante_at_labor.state.ny.us>
Sent by: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org


08/24/2004 13:49


Please respond to oracle-l



=3D3D20


        To:     "'oracle-l_at_freelists.org'" <oracle-l_at_freelists.org>
        cc:=3D3D20
        Subject:        RE: Re[2]: What Sort of Privilege=3F






Peter,



I totally agree with you.  Allowing Fk references from outside of =3D
the=3D3D20 schema is inviting confusion, duplication and disaster.  There
is really =3D no =3D3D good reason for it.



Tom Mercadante


Oracle Certified Professional




-----Original Message-----


=46rom: Peter Robson [mailto:pgro_at_bgs.ac.uk]=3D3D20

Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 4:57 AM


To: Jackie Brock


Cc: oracle-l_at_freelists.org


Subject: Re[2]: What Sort of Privilege=3F




Whoa there everybody!



While the answer is quite correct, of course (I read the FM years =3D
ago),=3D3D20 what has not been raised is the danger of allowing reference
to multiply unhindered across numerous schemas.



Be very careful if you choose to do this, otherwise, without a =3D
little=3D3D20 care, you may manage to lock your entire database solid with
conflicting FKs!



We did, learned our lesson, and now reference is ONLY permitted within =3D


=3D3D the one corporate schema.





peter


edinburgh


.............




JB> references




JB> All,



JB> what kind of privilege new for creating a FK constraint=20
JB> which=3D3D20=3D20 reference table belongs to another schema.


JB> ALTER TABLE PAM.table1
JB>  ADD CONSTRAINT FKCONS1
JB>  FOREIGN KEY (ID)
JB>  REFERENCES schema1.table2 (ID2);





JB> I have grant select,insert,update,delete for table2 BUT still I=3D20=20
JB> get=3D3D20 insufficient privilege. any idea=3F




JB> Hamid Alavi




--=3D3D20


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Received on Wed Aug 25 2004 - 12:42:49 CDT












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