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Home -> Community -> Mailing Lists -> Oracle-L -> RE: RE: Cary's Book - new topic
I agree that it's common. But it's probably provably correct to say that
these sites cannot reach a targeted performance level as quickly or as
cheaply as if they would if they removed the constraint.
I know it's a slow, uphill battle. Getting ammunition together to fight this battle is one of the motives I had for writing the book. I believe that an idea with a real book behind it is a lot more likely to have weight in a bureaucracy than an idea without a book behind it. For some reason, a book is like a necktie for ideas.
Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com
Upcoming events:
- Performance Diagnosis 101: 10/28 Phoenix, 11/19 Sydney - Hotsos Symposium 2004: March 7-10 Dallas - Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...
-----Original Message-----
rgaffuri_at_cox.net
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 7:44 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
2 of the projects Ive been on I have not had any contact with clients. I wasnt even allowed to speak to them. It all had to go through product managers, or the prime contractor.
Its nice when your able to speak to your customer, but sometimes your not allowed to. Ive been attacked by the prime contractor with 'Why do you need to talk to the customer, I told you what to do?'
That kind of environment is not uncommon. Unfortunately its also necessary, alot of technical people dont speak well and you really dont want them to get anywhere near a client. Especially if they are just sub-contractors.
I found the paranoia level to be especially high on US government
projects.
>
> From: Rachel Carmichael <wisernet100_at_yahoo.com>
> Date: 2003/10/08 Wed AM 07:59:24 EDT
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> Subject: RE: RE: Cary's Book - new topic
>
> You point out something that I've found most developers/DBAs don't
> do... actually sit with the end user to see what the problem is.
>
> This happens at the design end as well. I have seen way too many "user
> friendly" applications that aren't, because the programmer wrote it
for
> someone at his/her technical level and not for the clerk who actually
> uses it.
>
> I'm STILL fighting with one development team who wrote a search
screen,
> with ONE box for data entry and did not have the cursor sit in the
box.
> One extra mouse click for the end user. Every time they search.
>
>
> --- Cary Millsap <cary.millsap_at_hotsos.com> wrote:
> > These are the BEST projects to be on. You took a different path than
> > I
> > would have at the second "Me" line. I would shoot for:
> >
> > Customer: "It's Slow"
> > Me: What is?
> > Customer: The application. Make it fast.
> > Me: Show me.
> > Customer: Okay, come see.
> >
> > Then your job becomes to get a 10046/12 trace on what you're
> > watching.
> > From there, it's all downhill.
> >
> >
> > Cary Millsap
> > Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
> > http://www.hotsos.com
> >
> > Upcoming events:
> > - Performance Diagnosis 101: 10/28 Phoenix, 11/19 Sydney
> > - Hotsos Symposium 2004: March 7-10 Dallas
> > - Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > rgaffuri_at_cox.net
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 2:24 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> > how many projects actually have SLAs? Ive been on 5 projects and
none
> > of
> > them have had them. Its always been.
> >
> > Customer: 'It's Slow'
> > Me: What is?
> > Customer: The application. Make it fast.
> > Me: Define fast.
> > Customer: As fast as possible. Do it now.
> >
> > >
> > > From: Wolfgang Breitling <breitliw_at_centrexcc.com>
> > > Date: 2003/10/07 Tue PM 02:59:55 EDT
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> > > Subject: RE: Cary's Book - new topic
> > >
> > > Good point. I suppose this gets into the realm of "perceived
> > response
> > > time". Some applications break long transactions into several user
> > > interactions to hide the real response time. The application still
> > makes
> > > its SLA defined as "90% of transactions complete in < 3 seconds"
> > while
> > the
> > > real transaction takes a lot longer. However, the user is kept
busy
> > and you
> > > get into that perception thing. I know that if I see a traffic
jam,
> > I
> > look
> > > for ways to detour around it. Even it I don't save any time (there
> > is
> > no
> > > way of telling really), I have at least the impression that I'm
> > doing
> > > something, that I'm in charge, rather sitting passively in the jam
> > crawling
> > > along, waiting for something the clear up.
> > >
> > > At 12:39 PM 10/7/2003, you wrote:
> > >
> > > >Also, if we are to really address the business case as you
suggest
> > then
> > > >the definition should also include the quality of the response.
If
> > the
> > > >response is quick but incomplete and the user has to ask 10
> > questions
> > to
> > > >get at the one real answer he's after then what good is a fast
> > response
> > > >time?
> > > >
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 12:09 PM
> > > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > >
> > > Wolfgang Breitling
> > > Oracle7, 8, 8i, 9i OCP DBA
> > > Centrex Consulting Corporation
> > > http://www.centrexcc.com
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > > --
> > > Author: Wolfgang Breitling
> > > INET: breitliw_at_centrexcc.com
> > >
> > > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051
http://www.fatcity.com
> > > San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting
> > services
> > >
> >
-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: <rgaffuri_at_cox.net INET: rgaffuri_at_cox.net Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services --------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Cary Millsap INET: cary.millsap_at_hotsos.com Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services --------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).Received on Wed Oct 08 2003 - 10:24:25 CDT
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