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Home -> Community -> Mailing Lists -> Oracle-L -> RE: Cary's book
I have often wondered if the problems between DBAs and management stem from
mutual disrespect.
The manager feels awkward in being forced to hire an expert in an area he/she knows nothing about. Tries to make suggestions in order to flush out whether this "expert" really knows anything.
The DBA feels like people that have no concept of databases are making dumb suggestions or even orders. Feels his/her expertise is being questioned by an idiot.
You can see how this can easily spiral into mutual disrespect. And since a veteran DBA has experienced this situation before, it is easy to fall into a familiar behavior pattern.
And an experienced manager who has been forced to deal with DBAs before starts the relationship braced for the expected sharp looks and sharper comments.
A few years ago being an experienced DBA was a valuable commodity and we really enjoyed that. But the managers were very frustrated by having to search hard for a DBA, pay spiraling salary demands, etc. I think some managers look on these times as their revenge. What some DBAs see as pay cuts the managers see as a return to sanity.
Can anyone relate to this scenario?
Dennis Williams
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
dwilliams_at_lifetouch.com
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 12:44 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Let me clarify things further. In Cary's book, there is a part when
he describes a meeting when a manager was saying things that were
plain stupid and nobody would correct or interject his monologues.
He further ruminates over that not being a proper way to handle a
performance problem.
Well, there are several things that are slightly out of touch with
reality here. If you have a mean SOB of a boss, the first rule is
that he's always right. The second rule is that in case of a doubt,
the 1st rule applies. One does not correct people like that if he
works for them. Cary, you and me are not in the same position. You
are a big name consultant who also owns and manages a medium sized
consulting company. You are a big name outsider who companies trust
much more then their own employees and I am just a DBA, an expendable
commodity which can be replaced by single call to recruiter. Wood work
is not yet within my reach, my hobby is carrying 7x24 beeper.
Finally, let me reiterate, the book is excellent, I enjoy reading it
very much. As you can see, I did follow your advice and I did speak up.
I'll reap my rewards in heaven or, hopefully, a hotsos clinic.
On Fri, 2003-10-03 at 12:59, Bellow, Bambi wrote:
> This is a difficult question that I've had to face more than I would
> have liked in the past 2 years. The way to do it is to mark your
> prices down and say that comparing bang for the buck, you've got a
> bigger bang... and maybe they can squeeze out a better buck... and
> maybe they can't... but at least you can compete with people with
> little or no experience... OH, and all those phone calls you get from
> recruiters... return them all... every last one of them... and make
> friends with them... tell them you're an expensive commodity, but if
> they hear of anything you're always interested in looking around...
> because it is much better to leave on your own terms and go job to job
> than to let the market forces do their bit and be sitting between jobs
> for weeks and months, then settling for money you'd prefer not to
> settle for...
>
> HTH,
> Bambi.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: April Wells [mailto:awells_at_csedge.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 11:40 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: Cary's book
>
>
>
> That only works up to the point where they are willing to
> pay. It's sad, but you can STILL get a job with the OCP
> letters after your name, regardless of what you can or can't
> do. The idea is that they are paying you bottom line because
> you have no experience... but being able to pass a test means
> that you are trainable.
>
> If you can't get through the screeners that say... oh, you
> have X amount of qualifications... that prices you out of our
> range in these hard times, how can you market? Honestly, this
> is more than just rhetoric... HOW can you market yourself when
> you look bad to the bottom line?
>
> April Wells
> Oracle DBA/Oracle Apps DBA
> Corporate Systems
> Amarillo Texas
> /\
> / \
> / \
> \ /
> \/
> >\<
> \
> >\<
> \
> Few people really enjoy the simple pleasure of flying a kite
> Adam Wells age 11
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gudmundur Josepsson [mailto:gbj_at_index.is]
> Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 11:14 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: Cary's book
>
>
> Mladen,
>
> > Hard times present problems because people do
> > not want to pay for a competent DBA but frequently hire a
> shaman or a
> > witch doctor who "improves" on the system based on snake oil
> type
> > techniques. If I cannot get more money then some bozo after
> a
>
> If you know you're better than the bozo and that you can give
> people more
> value for their money then I think this is a marketing problem
> more than
> anything else. It's up to you to prove to the buyer (or your
> boss) that you
> can do the work better. Quantify your expected results.
> Chapter 4 has an
> excellent discussion on this.
>
> Gudmundur
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Gudmundur Josepsson
> INET: gbj_at_index.is
>
> Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051
> http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting
> services
>
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-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: mladen_at_wangtrading.com Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services --------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: DWILLIAMS_at_LIFETOUCH.COM Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services --------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).Received on Fri Oct 03 2003 - 14:29:33 CDT
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