I asked nicely once.
Please limit this to the OT list.
Jared
"Boivin, Patrice J" <BoivinP_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca>
Sent by: root_at_fatcity.com
01/09/2003 04:53 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
cc:
Subject: RE: Orawomen (staffing)
The difference between loyalty and competence might come in there...
hiring based mostly job interviews and "first impressions" are poor
predictors of a proper fit (read: ensuring competency in a position)
within organisations.
When there is a crisis, what would a competent manager with integrity
prefer? Being told he is wrong, that something is not workable, or
loyalty to help him build his career? Hmmm -- hard choice there, but
probably, a manager who cares about the success of the organisation as a
whole, would hire people who are more competent at filling that role than
he or she is.
When everything is going well, you can have both loyalty and what HR depts
often sometimes refer to as "people skills", "a good fit", or "can work in
a team environment."
If the Peter Principle is true, and there happens to be a crisis... that's
another story. The Peter Principle combined with careerism, and people
being too busy to focus properly on any one thing can hurt organisations
over the long term.
People gravitate toward comfort first and foremost. Why hire someone who
knows more than you and keeps telling you management is incompetent? Think
about it. You will have to work with these new hires on a daily basis,
life is hard enough as it is... Problems never happen... In any case
hiring people is such a hassle...
OK, no more reponses to this thread on this list from me...
Regards,
Pat.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 10:04 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Rachel,
I agree with you for the most part and I'm sure so will many others. There
are many people, however, who advocate people skills, personality;
attractiveness comes to mind, in the sense of do you like that person, in
other words, do you feel positevely when working together. They say that
even if a person lacks skills, she can be taught; as long as she is a nice
person, they're fine with it.
Regards,
Viktor
Rachel Carmichael <wisernet100_at_YAHOO.COM> wrote:
> very technical, very detailed, and very dedicated. The fact that
> they were both attractive didn't hurt either. One majored in math
I'm about to start a flame war here, I just know it.
WHY does it matter to mention the attractiveness of the female DBAs?
When I talk about someone I work with, I don't comment on how
attractive he or she is. I talk about whether or not the person can do
the work and I can learn from him or her.
It's the subtle things that promote the attitude.
- "Smith, Ron L." wrote:
> I have had the pleasure of working with 2 female DBA's at my company.
> I
> have to say they were both the best DBA's the company has had. Both
> were
> very technical, very detailed, and very dedicated. The fact that
> they were
> both attractive didn't hurt either. One majored! i! n mathamatics and
> had a 4
> point average. But I would not concider her a geek at all. They are
> both
> always willing to go the extra mile when needed and work what ever
> hours are
> required. I probebly wouldn't be here if it weren't for them. It
> would be
> too boring.
>
> R. Smith
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 9:25 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Cherie, Rachel - Thanks for sharing your viewpoint.
>
> Brian - I think you are correct that kids today get very little
> encouragement to study hard subjects like sciences. I find this
> ironic given
> the fact that we have an incredibly technological society. I think
> this is a
> cumulative product of our society. Parents don't always encourage
> their
> children, teachers feel they are talking to an unrece! pt! ive audience
> (and
> usually don't have much exposure to technical careers themselves),
> and our
> popular culture ridicules the idea of maturity in general.
> But this is more of a concern for girls as they are making
> decisions
> about their future. The reason is role models. Often just one
> prominent
> member of a profession will encourage many young people to consider
> that
> field.
> Now when a young woman in the computer field is considering
> becoming an
> Oracle DBA, a quick scan of the bookshelves turns up Rachel's name.
> So hear
> that Rachel -- you're a role model, so you must write more books!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 8:45 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Just asking .. I'm told that the number of "Americans" (by which I
> mean kids
> born in the! S! tates) entering technical fields of all types is
> declining.
> Could the decline of the number of women in IT entering IT be a part
> of that
> trend?
>
> For that matter, I wasn't really called on much in school (and glad
> for it,
> I wasn't usually paying attention), nor did my teachers encourage me
> that I
> can recall for anything in particular. Yet, here I am, earning a
> living
> doing computer stuff.
>
> If 'girls' (or boys, see para 1) aren't encouraged in technical
> matters,
> perhaps it's a problem beyond the scope of an overworked and
> underpaid
> teachers? Please note, I speak as a father of six and the husband of
> an
> (former) educator.
>
> ~brian
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 7:39 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> ! I ! think that within the population of women in IT, the number of
> female
> Oracle DBAs is increasing. However, in general, the number of women
> entering
> IT is decreasing. That is, the number of women who are encouraged to
> become
> DBAs or developers or network admins or sys admins is decreasing.
>
> I've noticed (I have a friend with a 13 year old son and a 16 year
> old
> daughter) that the schools are not encouraging girls to go into
> science or
> math. There have been studies done that show that teachers in those
> fields
> tend to call on the girls in the class less and spend less time
> helping them
> understand the subjects.
>
> My opinion only
>
> Rachel
>
> --- DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote:
> > Recently this list had a discussion of female Oracle DBAs. The
> > consensus was that the numbers w! er! e increasing, which I view as a
> good
> > thing. Here is an
> > article with industry statistics saying that the number of women in
> > IT is
> > decreasing.
> > http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/career/article.php/1564501
> > Any theories?
> >
> > Dennis Williams
> > DBA, 40%OCP
> > Lifetouch, Inc.
> > dwilliams_at_lifetouch.com
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
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Received on Thu Jan 09 2003 - 11:54:17 CST
