Oracle-L: RE: RE: RE: Double Take and Oracle

From: Denham Eva <EvaD_at_TFMC.co.za>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:10:02 -0800
Message-ID: <F001.004E9719.20021015091002@fatcity.com>

Dick,

Thank you, atleast you have given me something to work with. I had already began making plans of approaching management for some serious downtime. I have been holding back as I am awaiting response from Double-Take's Source - Sunbelt Software on this issue, I have logged a call with them about 8hrs ago already!
But you have given me alot to chew on until I do that - Many Thanks!!!

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 6:44 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Eva,

First things first, Oracle gets to be a bear when your trying to move a database as you are while it's running. The first point to settle is that Double Take is not doing something that is incompatible with Oracle, like making
an ASCII vs. BINARY copy of the datafiles. To determine that you need to do a
move with the source/production database shutdown. Yeah, I know that can be hard to schedule but it's necessary. If the copy won't start at that point then
Double Take is completely incompatible with Oracle and you can't go much further. Now if that passes, allow Double Take to copy the production DB to the
backup server and while it's doing so check the hotbackup status of the database
using the following:

            SELECT COUNT(*)
            FROM DBA_DATA_FILES DF, SYS.V_$BACKUP B
            WHERE FILE_ID = FILE#
            AND DF.STATUS = 'AVAILABLE'
            AND B.STATUS = 'ACTIVE';

The number you get back should equal the number of datafiles in your database.
If it comes back as 0 then the database has not switched and the backup is worthless. You may have to do this manually before running Double Take. Also
your production/source DB has to be in archive log mode or else hotbackup does
not work.

The reasons for this are wrapped around Oracle's "write as little as needed and
do so as seldomly as possible" idea. With this idea data block changes are not
sent to the datafiles until there is a need to. MicroSlop and Exchange work on
the exact opposite idea which makes them IO hogs, although Oracle can be the same. In your case I would suspect that the hotbackup is the problem.

Dick Goulet

____________________Reply Separator____________________
Author: Denham Eva <EvaD_at_TFMC.co.za>
Date:       10/15/2002 7:08 AM

Thanks for the input so far. Double-Take works real time so the database is never down.
I also followed their setup direction to the letter. Problem on our site is that this product is being used for SQL Server and Exchange (Appears to work fine there, but Oracle is a beast of another color compared to these "Access on Steroids" databases), management are insisting for the sake of conformity that this must work. At ever attempted startup another file gives an error, most frustrating of all is that there is almost no consistency to the errors.

Denham Eva

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 4:04 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Lewis,

I can understand where Eva is coming from. I had a demo of a similar product some time ago. Their BIG selling point is that you have a production
server and a backup that is close in time with your production server at half
(or less) the cost of a hot standby. Their reasoning is that you don't have Oracle running on the standby and consequently don't have to pay Oracle a license fee for the second server since only one server is running at any point
in time. Logically their point is well taken. Regrettably and understandably
that is NOT Oracle's point of view.

Dick Goulet

____________________Reply Separator____________________

Author: Bishop Lewis <Lewis.Bishop_at_woolwich.co.uk>
Date:       10/15/2002 2:23 AM

I'm always dubious of these types of products (especially when there are no reference sites available) and would opt for a batched up standby database solution (syncing every 5/10/15 minutes or so) myself. I'm not saying Double-Take is not good - I've got no experience of it and am sorry it's not any help but you have an option should Double-Take not work correctly.

Lewis Bishop

---
Barclays Enable - ISS - E-NTRUST/Bexleyheath NT
Oracle Database Consultant
Watling Street, Bexleyheath, Kent, DA6 7RR (Mail Van R)
Phone : 020 8298 3418
Mobile: 07950 380857
Email : lewis.bishop_at_woolwich.co.uk
"Enabling Competitive Advantage for Barclays in IT and Business Processing"
 
-----Original Message-----
Sent: 15 October 2002 08:28
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

This header confirms that this email message has been swept for the
presence of computer viruses. 

Corporate IT
THE WOOLWICH
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Esteemed Gurus 
Pls advise....... 
We are trying to get Double Take to work on our site. Does anyone actually
have this product working??? 
Salesperson claims Double Take is certified by Oracle - does anyone know?
Where could I find out, other than the company itself?
For those of you who don't know this product pls give your opinion. Double
Take is a software that copies your database files and parameter files etc
across to a disaster recovery machine, bit for bit. At failure of the
production the recovery becomes the production system and starts up the
database. Basicly the datafiles are still open??
We get the following error when we start up the database on the recovery
system in tests: 
ORA-01172: recovery of thread 1 stuck at bloack 176624 of file 2. 
I would just like to add that when this happens we resync the databases and
try again to test and guess what - it is the turn of file 3 to give the
above error, and so back and forth we go.
To say the very least I am frustrated beyond comprihension. To make this
worse there is no one else in South Africa that uses this software with
Oracle, apparently in France. Convienant - I'd say. So I have no one to turn
to about this. (Apparently it works well with MSSQL). Anyone any ideas?
The Enviroment is Windows 2K SP3. 
Oracle 817 
Regards 
Denham Eva 
Oracle DBA 
"UNIX is basically a simple operating system, but you have to be a genius to
understand the simplicity." 
Dennis Ritchie. 

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Author: Bishop Lewis
  INET: Lewis.Bishop_at_woolwich.co.uk

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Author: 
  INET: dgoulet_at_vicr.com

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12">
<TITLE>RE: RE: Double Take and Oracle</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Thanks for the input so far. Double-Take works real time so
the
database is never down.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>I also followed their setup direction to the letter.
Problem on
our site is that this product is being used for SQL Server and Exchange
(Appears
to work fine there, but Oracle is a beast of another color compared to these
&quot;Access on Steroids&quot; databases), management are insisting for the
sake
of conformity that this must work. At ever attempted startup another file
gives
an error, most frustrating of all is that there is almost no consistency to
the
errors.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Denham Eva </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: dgoulet_at_vicr.com [<A
HREF="mailto:dgoulet_at_vicr.com">mailto:dgoulet_at_vicr.com</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 4:04 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: Re:RE: Double Take and Oracle</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Lewis,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I can understand where Eva is coming
from.&nbsp; I had a demo of a similar</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>product some time ago.&nbsp; Their BIG selling point is
that
you have a production</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>server and a backup that is close in time with your
production
server at half</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>(or less) the cost of a hot standby.&nbsp; Their reasoning
is
that you don't have</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Oracle running on the standby and consequently don't have
to
pay Oracle a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>license fee for the second server since only one server is
running at any point</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>in time.&nbsp; Logically their point is well taken.&nbsp;
Regrettably and understandably</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>that is NOT Oracle's point of view.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Dick Goulet</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>____________________Reply
Separator____________________</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Author: Bishop Lewis
&lt;Lewis.Bishop_at_woolwich.co.uk&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Date:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 10/15/2002 2:23
AM</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>I'm always dubious of these types of products (especially
when
there are no</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>reference sites available) and would opt for a batched up
standby database</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>solution (syncing every 5/10/15 minutes or so) myself. I'm
not
saying</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Double-Take is not good - I've got no experience of it and
am
sorry it's not</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>any help but you have an option should Double-Take not work
correctly.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Lewis Bishop</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>---</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Barclays Enable - ISS - E-NTRUST/Bexleyheath NT</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Oracle Database Consultant</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Watling Street, Bexleyheath, Kent, DA6 7RR (Mail Van
R)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Phone : 020 8298 3418</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Mobile: 07950 380857</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Email : lewis.bishop_at_woolwich.co.uk</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&quot;Enabling Competitive Advantage for Barclays in IT and
Business Processing&quot;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: 15 October 2002 08:28</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>This header confirms that this email message has been swept
for
the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>presence of computer viruses. </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Corporate IT</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>THE WOOLWICH</FONT>
<BR><FONT
SIZE=2>---------------------------------------------------------------------
-</F
ONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Hello Esteemed Gurus </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Pls advise....... </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>We are trying to get Double Take to work on our site. Does
anyone actually</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>have this product working??? </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Salesperson claims Double Take is certified by Oracle -
does
anyone know?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Where could I find out, other than the company
itself?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>For those of you who don't know this product pls give your
opinion. Double</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Take is a software that copies your database files and
parameter files etc</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>across to a disaster recovery machine, bit for bit. At
failure
of the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>production the recovery becomes the production system and
starts up the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>database. Basicly the datafiles are still open??</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>We get the following error when we start up the database on
the
recovery</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>system in tests: </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>ORA-01172: recovery of thread 1 stuck at bloack 176624 of
file
2. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>I would just like to add that when this happens we resync
the
databases and</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>try again to test and guess what - it is the turn of file 3
to
give the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>above error, and so back and forth we go.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To say the very least I am frustrated beyond comprihension.
To
make this</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>worse there is no one else in South Africa that uses this
software with</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Oracle, apparently in France. Convienant - I'd say. So I
have
no one to turn</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>to about this. (Apparently it works well with MSSQL).
Anyone
any ideas?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>The Enviroment is Windows 2K SP3. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Oracle 817 </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Regards </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Denham Eva </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Oracle DBA </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&quot;UNIX is basically a simple operating system, but you
have
to be a genius to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>understand the simplicity.&quot; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Dennis Ritchie. </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>DISCLAIMER </FONT>
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<BR><FONT SIZE=2>confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any
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and all</FONT>
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disclose,
distribute,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the
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<BR><FONT SIZE=2>recipient. TFMC, its holding company, and any of its
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<BR><FONT SIZE=2>reserve the right to monitor and manage all e-mail
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<BR><FONT SIZE=2>its networks. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Any views expressed in this message are those of the
individual
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</P>
<BR>

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<BR><FONT SIZE=2>-- </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Author: Bishop Lewis</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp; INET: Lewis.Bishop_at_woolwich.co.uk</FONT>
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DISCLAIMER
This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential,
proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality 
or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive 
this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies 
of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the 
sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, 
distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not 
the intended recipient. TFMC, its holding company, and any of its 
subsidiaries each reserve the right to monitor and manage all e-mail 
communications through its networks.

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, 
except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized 
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____________________________________________________________________________

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-- 

Author: Denham Eva
  INET: EvaD_at_TFMC.co.za

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Received on Tue Oct 15 2002 - 12:10:02 CDT