RE: AW: off topic: anyone form Amsterdam, Holland / other major e

Hello,

Ich kine nicht verstahen zie! (sp?)

Which means, I do not understand you - I used this in Germany until I picked up enough to get by. By saying it, I got a lot more help that I would have if I just kept asking in English. Oh, and 'danke' and bitte' works well to (thank you, you are welcome), to say nothing of hilfe (help!). In fact, I found that no matter what the country, if you learn the kernel of the language, even if you were off on the pronunciation, most people appreciated that you had taken the time to learn something, and, as a result, were invariably more willing to understand what you needed; this was esp. true in France. Of course, in some countries, the same words can have a very different meaning if pronounced differently (China, Philippines) in which case it can get very funny, or get you in a lot of trouble. For example, in the Visyan dialect of the Philippines, you can say wife, or have the same word mean witch, depending on how you say it.

Thank you,

Paul Sherman
DBA Elcom, Inc.
voice - 781-501-4143 (direct #)
fax - 781-278-8341 (secure)
email - psherman_at_elcom.com

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 5:10 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L e

Do Germans mind to speak English to an English speaking programmer? How would one communicate if he/she doesn't speak German?

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 3:35 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Yes, it is still the case. You still can get relatively easy an IT job in Germany.

I get my job in Switzerland in 97 through personal contact, but worked as "reine oekonomische Director". So I don't know how is IT market
there. Sorry.

Jan Pruner

On Tuesday 11 June 2002 19:13, you wrote:
> I'd like to ask another question. Hope you don't mind... How did you get
> a job in Switzerland/Germany/Holland? How is market and demand there? I
> know a year or two ago Germany was screaming for dba/programmers. Is it
> still the case or times changed?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 10:54 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> europ
>
> Nicht nur in Zurich.
>
> No, they aren't.
> But if you don't know conventions in Switzerland you will be surprised.
:-)
>
> JP
>
> On Tuesday 11 June 2002 16:58, you wrote:
> > >Be warned: If you're american, you might get a culture shock regarding
> > >unfriendly and pushy people.
> >
> > does that mean that the people in Zurich ARE unfriendly and pushy?
> >
> > --- Stefan Jahnke <Stefan.Jahnke_at_bov.de> wrote:
> > > Hi Andy
> > >
> > > I can only give you some information about the Duesseldorf area in
> > > Germany
> > > and the Zuerich area in Switzerland.
> > >
> > > D'dorf:
> > >
> > > As a combined sys admin / dba with 6 years experience, I guess you
> > > can
> > > expect about 60000 Euros per year.
> > > If you want more, you have to be extraordinarily good. If you are
> > > not, you
> > > might have to accept less. I assume
> > > you're talking about a permanent position here.
> > > Cost of living is pretty high. You can expect to pay LOADS of taxes
> > > (IRS is
> > > really greedy here ;). Housing should
> > > be about 800 Euros for a 70 square meter apartment (but not downtown,
> > > that's
> > > exponentially more expensive unless
> > > you're really lucky). Food and clothing is also pretty expensive. My
> > > wife
> > > and I spend about 600 Euros per month on
> > > food. If you need a car, you'll have to pay a lot for insurance and
> > > tax
> > > (really varies, depending on the size of the engine
> > > and how likely it is to be stolen;). Public transportation is a good
> > > alternative.
> > >
> > > Zuerich:
> > >
> > > As for Switzerland, multiply the housing and food cost by 2 and there
> > > you
> > > are ... easy.
> > > Public transportation is perfect plus you pay less tax. You also can
> > > expect
> > > the salary
> > > here to be about 30% higher then in Germany, so that makes up for it.
> > >
> > > Be warned: If you're american, you might get a culture shock
> > > regarding
> > > unfriendly and pushy people.
> > >
> > > I guess Amsterdam is comparable (just guessing).
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Stefan
> > >
> > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> > > Von: Andrey Bronfin [mailto:andreyb_at_elrontelesoft.com]
> > > Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. Juni 2002 12:13
> > > An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Betreff: off topic: anyone form Amsterdam, Holland / other major
> > > european
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi !
> > > Sorry for this off topic posting.
> > >
> > > I will probably be offered a "Solaris sys admin / Oracle DBA"
> > > position in
> > > Amsteram, the Netherlands.
> > > Unfortunately , i have no idea of what order of magnitude salary
> > > should i
> > > get / request.
> > > I have 6 years of experience in the field.
> > > So i wanted to ask the list memebers ( who are from Amsterdam or
> > > other major
> > > European cities , which is compatible to Amsterdam in terms of costs
> > > of
> > > living / salaries) a couple of questions:
> > >
> > > what would be a reasonable salary for a relocating person of my
> > > qualifications ?
> > >
> > > What is the living cost there , i.e. an appartment to rent , food ,
> > > leisure,
> > > travel , taxes ,etc.. ?
> > >
> > > How does Amsterdam compares price-wise to other Dutch cities and to
> > > other
> > > European capitals ?
> > >
> > > Thanks a lot in advance to everybody who will respond either directly
> > > to me
> > > or to the list.
> > >
> > > Cheers.
> > >
> > > P.S : Please forgive me if this off topic question bothers you ;-)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > DBAndrey
> > >
> > > * 03-9254520
> > > * 058-548133
> > > * mailto:andreyb_at_elrontelesoft.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > --
> > > Author: Andrey Bronfin
> > > INET: andreyb_at_elrontelesoft.com
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > --
> > > Author: Stefan Jahnke
> > > INET: Stefan.Jahnke_at_bov.de
> > >
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Author: Jan Pruner
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Author: Sherman, Paul R.
  INET: PSherman_at_elcom.com

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