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Re:RE: RE: Siebel.

From: <dgoulet_at_vicr.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 10:35:20 -0800
Message-ID: <F001.003D0D0F.20011129100034@fatcity.com> 






Sounds like the path NAI's predecessor took with Support Magic.  WHAT A MESS!!!!



Dick Goulet


Off to buy a new shovel, wonder why?


____________________Reply Separator____________________
Author: "Mark Leith" <mark_at_cool-tools.co.uk>
Date:       11/29/2001 8:45 AM





Another good one is when they change the application from flat files to an
RDBMS.. And then continue to forget all about relational database theory..



Love it!!



-----Original Message-----



dgoulet_at_vicr.com


Sent: 29 November 2001 14:50


To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L




Henry,



    I am sorry to have to admit it, but my experience with third party
software


is that all of them don't want to imbed their referential integrity into the
database.  I like you also believe it is because they do not have any kind
of


data model, never mind a 'proper' one Although the reason I was recently
given


was that it was "proprietary information of a confidential nature".  Smells
like


BS, looks like BS, care to taste it??



    We've bothered PeopleSoft for theirs as we have to write some software
to


interface our Automated line to them.  They did finally come up with one,
but it


is dead wrong.  The model they came up with had tables missing, other tables
were on the model, but there was no definition of them in the database, and
the


data integrity on the model did not match the data in the database.  Mostly
we


found that foreign keys are not being completely enforced, and that primary
keys


are not exactly always unique.  One place where I will give on this type of
issue is when, for whatever reason, they populate tables in reverse order
namely


the children before the parents.  This I mostly see in massive batch
processing.



Dick Goulet


____________________Reply Separator____________________
Author: Henry Poras <Henry.Poras_at_ctp.com>
Date:       11/28/2001 11:45 AM





Does anybody else get the same feeling as me that it is not that vendors are
ignoring proper data models, they don't even know what they are.



Henry



-----Original Message-----



Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 2:14 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L




Unfortunately it's the case way too often. Even at the enlightened place
where I work, our RI is done at the application level.



Not much I can do about it. Our development is done on MySQL and then
"ported" to Oracle.



--Walt Weaver



  Bozeman, Montana, USA



-----Original Message-----



Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 11:55 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L




<RANT MODE>



BAH!! These bloody application providers leaving the integrity to their
bloody applications instead of leaving it in it's rightful place in the
database!!! Makes my life 10 times harder!!! Got no consideration at all
have they?



</RANT MODE>



:P



Thanks!



Mark



-----Original Message-----



Linda.Miller-Coker_at_jpmorgan.com


Sent: 28 November 2001 17:46


To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L





We use Siebel and no it does NOT have RI.






"Mark Leith" <mark_at_cool-tools.co.uk>@fatcity.com on 11/28/2001 10:56:07 AM



Please respond to ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com





Sent by:  root_at_fatcity.com




To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
cc:




Hi Gang,



Does anybody use Siebel - I believe it's a CRM package?



I'm trying to find out of the Siebel application enforces RI within the
database or the application? Anybody know?



Cheers



Mark




 Mark Leith             | T: +44 (0)1905 330 281
 Sales & Marketing      | F: +44 (0)870 127 5283
 Cool Tools UK Ltd      | E: mark_at_cool-tools.co.uk
===================================================
           http://www.cool-tools.co.uk
       Maximising throughput & performance






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Author:


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Author: Mark Leith


  INET: mark_at_cool-tools.co.uk


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Author: Weaver, Walt


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Author: Henry Poras


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Author:


  INET: dgoulet_at_vicr.com


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Author: Mark Leith


  INET: mark_at_cool-tools.co.uk


Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California        -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists


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Author: 


  INET: dgoulet_at_vicr.com


Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
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Received on Thu Nov 29 2001 - 12:35:20 CST












Original text of this message













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