Re: "Application DBA" vs. DBA vs. Application Administrator

Hi,

just to throw my 2 (still Pfennigs) in, I used to work as a production DBA up
till 1998, then moved to a more development DBA/ developer style job. I can only say that it is a hundred percent right (eventhough complete bu*&$%hit) that development (especially analysis and design) has a much higher
visibility then production. I guess that has to do with the fact, that as a
development guy, you tend to sit on the lap of the manager/user in charge of the
development whereas in production it's more like as long as everything works,
nobody notices that you even exist.
On the other hand, I'm also sick of getting bashed for putting too much efford
into a good design using what Oracle has to offer, performance tuning while
still being in development and so on. Usually, I'm confronted with interesting
statements like "Why bother teaching developers about differences between Oracle
and DB2, isn't it all SQL afterall ?" and similar sh*§$t. Actually, since the situation for DBAing isn't that great here anymore, I might
even move completely to development (where's was my data structure book again
?).

cheers,
Stefan

DENNIS WILLIAMS schrieb:

> Patrice - I think the previous discussion was not referring to application
> developers that had appointed themselves to be an "application DBA" but to
> honest-to-goodness certified, card-carrying Oracle DBAs, some of whom tend
> to work with new development. I agree with you that DBA has the word
> "administer" in it which is inherently different from "developer".
> My interpretation of the previous discussion is that our workload as
> DBAs tends to be split between production support and development support.
> Some of us DBAs tend to migrate our careers toward jobs that involve almost
> entirely production support, while others crave the excitement of
> development situations. When a large application is developed and then moved
> into production, it is not unusual to see the DBA that shepherded the
> development to move onto another development project and be replaced by a
> DBA with a history of maintaining production databases.
> However, we must remember that developers come in a wide range of
> database capabilities. With some developers it is important to keep them on
> a tight reign so they don't do something that will cause problems in the
> future. Some developers have excellent database skills and may even have
> previously been a DBA (I know that is hard to believe, why would anyone give
> up the mad, carefree DBA life). I feel that you need to adapt your style to
> accommodate differences in development groups, development tools (some cause
> more DBA headaches than others), company politics, etc.
> The part that I struggle with is that I am the sole DBA for a group
> of production databases and I also support 4 separate groups of developers,
> each with their own competencies and tools. When push comes to shove (about
> every day), I tend to work on keeping the production databases going at the
> expense of sitting down with the developers to find what they are up to,
> coach them on modeling, etc. My manager doesn't always understand why I
> don't have time to keep the development side of my job going. In terms of
> justifying my salary, the development stuff has a lot more visibility. If
> anyone has any tips for balancing these two areas of responsibility I am
> eager to listen.
> Dennis Williams
> DBA
> Lifetouch, Inc.
> dwilliams_at_lifetouch.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 7:30 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
> Sorry to sound harsh, but in my opinion "Application DBA" is an oxymoron.
>
> There are database administrators, these can advise on how best to build the
> underlying data structures if need be. =20
>
> Sometimes developers have to tune their applications, proper design is part
> of that process. This does not make them "Application DBAs".
>
> There are application administrators, these administer applications like
> SAP, Oracle Applications, boiler-plate applications, in-house programs that
> need constant tweaking and "improvement", etc.
>
> We went through this here a couple of years ago, the developers kept
> referring to their "Application DBAs" when in fact they design and develop
> applications, then tweak them --> they are Application Architects perhaps,
> Application Administrators probably, but Database Administrators? No.
>
> This smells like developers not having enough to do. Sometimes for whatever
> reason they want to start doing DBA-type work to fill their gap times and to
> increase their control over the machines. Not a good thing, most often when
> we are handed a server from end users or developers, the servers are a mess.
> Main reason: Developers tend to work by trial and error, and to build
> things over time. And... "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" usually implies:
> No planning ahead, no tuning or monitoring if there aren't any glaring
> problems, if there is one patch it up if it's a faster way to "get by".
>
> That is neither database administration, nor system administration.
>
> My CDN$0.02 which is worth about US$0.0124 as of yesterday's dollar
> conversion.
>
> Regards,
> Patrice Boivin
> Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
>
> Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des syst=E8mes
> Technology Services | Services technologiques
> Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique=20
> Maritimes Region, DFO | R=E9gion des Maritimes, MPO
>
> E-Mail: boivinp_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca <mailto:boivinp_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca>=20
>
> --=20
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --=20
> Author: Boivin, Patrice J
> INET: BoivinP_at_mar.dfo-mpo.gc.ca
>
> Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> --=20
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --=20
> Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
> INET: DWILLIAMS_at_LIFETOUCH.COM
>
> Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> This Mail has been checked for Viruses
> Attention: Encrypted mails can NOT be checked!
>
> **
>
> Diese Mail wurde auf Viren geprueft
> Hinweis: Verschluesselte mails koennen NICHT auf Viren geprueft werden!
> ---------------------------------------------------------

--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Stefan Jahnke
  INET: stefan.jahnke_at_d2vodafone.de

Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California        -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
--------------------------------------------------------------------
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).