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Re: RE: Backup Strategy

From: Gene Sais <gsais_at_co.palm-beach.fl.us>
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 16:33:16 -0700
Message-ID: <F001.003A2BD7.20011004164019@fatcity.com> 






Guess its time for me to at least try hot backups.  Guess, Lisa said it right, having 
come from the sysadmin side, I like my files closed.  But I will have at least 1 cold 
backup per week to make me happy :)



>>> kimberly.smith_at_gmd.fujitsu.com 10/04/01 18:21 PM >>>
Don't get me wrong Gene, cold backups have their place.  Especially in the
context your


talking about.  You obviously don't need to have all your data recovered
right?  Cause if


you did a cold backup without archive logs are not going to get you all your
data back.  


I don't have my development databases in archive log mode.  Actually I don't
even back them


up as I can rebuild them from production easily enough.



The reason this irks me so much is I have a manager here that I have to go
though this same


fight every time I am going to do any maintenance to a database.  "You have
to shut down the


database and do a cold backup first".  Please!  Why would I want to add an
extra 3 hours of


downtime to a mission critical app.  I run a hot backup first and then start
my maintenance.


I am the one who has to recover the damn thing.  I have yet to have a
failure recovering


from a hot backup (and I do have to do them from time to time).  



I am not sure where the misconception comes from that its "safer" to have a
cold backup.


Must be from people doing hot backups wrong or something.  Its an ol' wives
tale.  Its not


true.  



-----Original Message-----



Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 3:26 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L




I see 2 advantages of cold over hot backups:



    
  
  1.   Archive log mode not required for cold backups.  Dev & Test DB's do not
need archive space.

  
  2.   Cold backups follow the KISS principle.  Shutdown db, tar, dump, cpio,
dd, etc. the datafiles redo logs, ctl files, oracle filesystems, etc. to
tape, Startup db, Done.  Take the tape to same or another server and
restore, No Oracle cmds required (filesystems being the same).  Now for Hot
Backups, we have to add a step.  Not a big step :)  We need the arcs and
need to recover the db.






Gene


* Still not convinced backing up closed files are not safer/better than open
files :) *



>>> <Jared.Still_at_radisys.com> 10/04/01 04:59PM >>>




OK, I'll bite, what OS commands?



As for cold backups, and I'm sure you've heard this already, they're only
really needed after you open a database with 'resetlogs' .  Otherwise it
is not necessary to use a cold backup.



Jared



 


                    "Gene Sais"

                    <Gsais_at_co.palm-be       To:     Multiple recipients of
list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>        
                    ach.fl.us>              cc:

                    Sent by:                Subject:     RE: Backup Strategy

                    root_at_fatcity.com

 

 

                    10/04/01 02:10 PM

                    Please respond to

                    ORACLE-L

 

 









Well for 1 reason, Cold backups are restored using OS cmds, no need for
Oracle recovery, whereas, Hot Backups require OS cmds + Oracle recovery.
One exception is pt in time recoveries.  I do have 1 db that will be
web-enabled, therefore 24x7.  So guess what I have to do, Hot Backups.  I
am not against them, just prefer cold.   Anyone have hot backup scripts?
Lisa, you are the script ninja, got 1 of those scripts lying aorund.
Thanks :)



Gene



>>> kimberly.smith_at_gmd.fujitsu.com 10/04/01 04:00PM >>>
Why is better Gene?  What is it about the files being closed
that gives you the trust factor?  I don't use RMAN here either
but its more because my backup method works wonders and I just
don't need those extra features that RMAN provides.



There are a lot of sites out there that cannot afford to have
the database come down even for 5 minutes so you miht want
to spend some time getting the warm fuzzies over hot backups.
I swear, they work.



-----Original Message-----



Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:25 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L




I personally prefer cold backups over hot.  Always better when the files
are


closed.  But hey, this is coming from someone who still doesn't trust Rman
:)



Gene



>>> kimberly.smith_at_gmd.fujitsu.com 10/04/01 12:40PM >>>
I agree with your export statement but I must question this one.  I cannot
think of a single reason to get a cold backup over a hot backup.  I can
think of reasons for cold backups but if I was doing hot backups already I
would not shutdown my database just to get a cold.  There is a myth out
there that hot backups are not as reliable as cold backups and its false.
Your really not saving anything time wise if there is a crash (unless of
course all your disks crash as you are bring up the database).



Weekly cold backups are a good plan.




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Author: Kimberly Smith


  INET: kimberly.smith_at_gmd.fujitsu.com 


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Author: Gene Sais


  INET: Gsais_at_co.palm-beach.fl.us 


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Author: Kimberly Smith


  INET: kimberly.smith_at_gmd.fujitsu.com 


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Author: Gene Sais


  INET: Gsais_at_co.palm-beach.fl.us 


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Author: Gene Sais


  INET: Gsais_at_co.palm-beach.fl.us


Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
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Author: Kimberly Smith


  INET: kimberly.smith_at_gmd.fujitsu.com


Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California        -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists


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Author: Gene Sais


  INET: gsais_at_co.palm-beach.fl.us


Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
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Received on Thu Oct 04 2001 - 18:33:16 CDT












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