Re: general doubt

From: Natasha Batson <nbatson_at_neal-and-massy.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 04:29:32 -0400
Message-Id: <10731.125763@fatcity.com>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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RE: general doubtI just thought I should state that of course one can = get a "tone" from an email.

And I think that Alex is being unfairly punished here. It's not like he = was being obscene
or anything.=20

It's all a matter of perception ( and the mood you're in ) when you're = reading an email.

You might approach a topic or email differently on a different day. Read over the thread "General Doubt" and you might actually find it = funny now.

And that applies to all of us....

Original Message -----=20 From: Alex Hillman=20 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L=20 Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 3:27 PM Subject: RE: general doubt

OK, let's end it.=20

Alex=20

-----Original Message-----=20
From: Rocky Welch [mailto:rockyw_99_at_yahoo.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 2:01 PM=20 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L=20 Subject: RE: general doubt=20

How can you get a "tone" from an email? Losing battle Alex. Give it = up.=20

Alex Hillman <alex_hillman_at_physia.com> wrote:=20
> I do not object to mentioning of the delete key but I do not like =
and=20
> will=20
> not tolerate the tone. I do not see Rachel as a such moral authority =

> figure=20
> for me to accept such tone (Maybe she is but I barely know her - I =
saw=20
> her=20
> one time on IOUG conference and saw couple of her books). If instead =
of=20
> "I=20
> remind you, the delete key is located on your keyboard and labelled =
as=20
> such"=20
> she said something like "If you don't like the message use the =
delete=20
> key" I=20
> wouldn't even reply.=20

  >=20

> Alex Hillman=20

  >=20
  >=20
  >=20

> -----Original Message-----=20
> Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 12:41 PM=20
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L=20

  >=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >=20

> I must say that I totally agree with Rachel. As a female, I found =
that=20
> the=20
> email Alex send out to be very offensive. And I definitely don't=20
> appreciate=20
> such comments on the list.=20

  >=20

> Every body entitled to speak whatever they want, subject to not=20
> physically=20
> or emotionally harming the other person.=20

  >=20

> Like what Rachel said, DELETE keys are always there for you for one=20
> purpose: to delete whatever you don't want to read!=20

  >=20

> Winnie=20

  >=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >=20

> "Deshpande, Kirti" <kirti.deshpande_at_verizon.com>@fatcity.com on=20
> 01/03/2001=20
> 07:50:50 PM=20

  >=20

> Please respond to ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com=20

  >=20

> Sent by: root_at_fatcity.com=20

  >=20
  >=20

> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>=20
> cc:=20

  >=20
  >=20
  >=20

> Current Score:=20
> Rachel : 14=20
> Alex : 6=20
> End of 1st Period !! This is getting very interesting at =
FatcityBowl...=20

  >=20

> Can we..can we just get along...=20
> - Rodney King=20

  >=20


  > > -----Original Message-----=20

  > > From:   Rachel Carmichael [SMTP:carmichr_at_hotmail.com]=20

  > > Sent:   Wednesday, January 03, 2001 8:51 PM=20

  > > To:     Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L=20

  > > Subject:     RE: general doubt=20

  > >=20

  > > From www.dictionary.com:=20

> >=20
> > insinuation: Something insinuated, especially an artfully =
indirect,=20
> often=20
> > derogatory suggestion.=20
> >=20
> > insinuate: To introduce or insert (oneself) by subtle and artful=20
> means.=20
> >=20
> > Based on those definitions, I didn't insinuate anything. I was =
neither=20
> > subtle nor indirect in calling you sexist.=20
> >=20
> > sexism: Attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote =
stereotyping=20
> of=20
> > social roles based on gender.=20
> >=20
> > Telling me that I am not your mother or wife is promoting=20
> stereotyping,=20
> > since those are gender-based roles.=20
> >=20
> > I told you to use the delete key and not to insult me... no=20
> insinuation=20
> > there. You might consider checking a dictionary before you use =
words=20
> when=20
> > you are not sure of the definitions.=20
> >=20
> > Consider yourself permanently blocked -- and a complaint about =
your=20
> > behavior=20
> > has been lodged with the list owner.=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > >From: Alex Hillman <alex_hillman_at_physia.com>=20
> > >Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com=20
> > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>=20
> > >Subject: RE: general doubt=20
> > >Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 13:30:32 -0800=20
> > >=20
> > >Maybe it is enough. What is your next insinuation? Sexist - it is =

> > >hilarious.=20
> > >You should have better arguments than that. And also you can =
delete=20
> my=20
> > >messages - if you use MS Outlook you can even have a rule to =
delete=20
> them=20
> > >immediately.=20
> > >=20
> > >Alex Hillman=20
> > >=20
> > >-----Original Message-----=20
> > >Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 3:46 PM=20
> > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >Yes you are entitled to your view -- but when you add to the =
messages=20
> on=20
> > a=20
> > >topic then you add to the trash if you consider the topic itself =
to=20
> be=20
> > >trash.=20
> > >=20
> > >As for not being your wife or mother -- no, thank goodness, I'm =
not=20
> in=20
> > any=20
> > >way or form related to you. And I find it insulting that you =
would=20
> say=20
> > that=20
> > >to me, since you would NOT say "you are not my father" to any man =
on=20
> this=20
> > >list. I find that a sexist remark and definitely "trashing" this=20
> list.=20
> > >=20
> > >As for being or not being a school teacher... whether or not I =
was is=20
> > >irrelevant... but I consider THAT a compliment (although I can =
infer=20
> that=20
> > >you don't think it is). School teachers educate... and I think =
that=20
> > >eradicating ignorance is a noble task.=20
> > >=20
> > > >From: Alex Hillman <alex_hillman_at_physia.com>=20
> > > >Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com=20
> > > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com> =

> > > >Subject: RE: general doubt=20
> > > >Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 12:10:42 -0800=20
> > > >=20
> > > >I think that as anybody else I am entitled to my point of view =
and=20
> can=20
> > > >express it. This is definitely trashing and every day it =
becomes=20
> worse.=20
> >=20
> > >In=20
> > > >trashing I mean to diminish the value of this list. Also there =
were=20
> no=20
> > > >indications in the subject showing me that I should delete the=20
> message.=20
> > > >Also=20
> > > >I do not appreciate this "I remind you, the delete key is =
located=20
> on=20
> > your=20
> > > >keyboard and labelled as such". You are not my mother or wife =
or=20
> school=20
> > > >teacher (or maybe you are a school teacher - in former life?).=20
> > > >=20
> > > >Alex Hillman=20
> > > >=20
> > > >-----Original Message-----=20
> > > >Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 2:26 PM=20
> > > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L=20
> > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > > >Alex,=20
> > > >=20
> > > >"trashing this list"? A bit harsh and definitely inaccurate.=20
> > > >=20
> > > >I remind you, the delete key is located on your keyboard and=20
> labelled=20
> > as=20
> > > >such. I suggest you use it instead of, to quote your own =
message,=20
> > >"trashing=20
> > > >this list".=20
> > > >=20
> > > >Rachel=20
> >=20
> --=20
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com=20
> --=20
> Author: Deshpande, Kirti=20
> INET: kirti.deshpande_at_verizon.com=20

  >=20


  > Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051=20

  > San Diego, California        -- Public Internet access / Mailing =

Lists=20


  > -------------------------------------------------------------------- =

> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message=20
> to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in=20
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L=20
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may=20
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). =

  >=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >=20
  >=20

> --=20
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com=20
> --=20
> Author:=20
> INET: Winnie_Liu_at_infonet.com=20

  >=20


  > Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051=20

  > San Diego, California        -- Public Internet access / Mailing =

Lists=20


  > -------------------------------------------------------------------- =

>=20

  =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20
  Rocky Welch=20
  Senior Consultant - Internet Services Group=20   Arthur Andersen=20

  __________________________________________________=20

  Do You Yahoo!?=20
  Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!=20   http://photos.yahoo.com/=20
  --=20
  Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com=20   --=20
  Author: Rocky Welch=20
    INET: rockyw_99_at_yahoo.com=20

Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051=20 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists =

  --------------------------------------------------------------------=20

To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message=20 to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in=20 the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L=20 (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may=20 also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).=20

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<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>RE: general doubt</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =

charset=3Dwindows-1252">

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I just thought I should state that of =

course one=20
can get a "tone" from an email.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And I think that Alex is being unfairly = punished=20
here. It's not like he was being obscene</DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>or anything. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It's all a matter of perception ( and =

the mood=20
you're in ) when you're reading an email.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You might approach a topic or email = differently on=20
a different day.</DIV>
<DIV>Read over the thread  "General = Doubt" and you=20
might actually find it funny now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And that applies to all of = us....</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20
 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black">From:=20
 <A title=3Dalex_hillman_at_physia.com =
href=3D"mailto:alex_hillman_at_physia.com">Alex=20 Hillman</A> </DIV>
 <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A = title=3DORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com=20
 href=3D"mailto:ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com">Multiple recipients of list = ORACLE-L</A>=20
 </DIV>
 <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Thursday, January 04, = 2001 3:27=20
 PM</DIV>
 <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: RE: general = doubt</DIV>

  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>OK, let's end it.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>Alex</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT =

size=3D2>From: Rocky=20
 Welch [<A=20
 =
href=3D"mailto:rockyw_99_at_yahoo.com">mailto:rockyw_99_at_yahoo.com</A>]</FONT= >=20
 Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 2:01 PM = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <FONT=20 size=3D2>Subject: RE: general doubt How can you get a "tone" from an email? Losing = battle Alex.=20
 Give it up. 
 --- Alex Hillman <<A=20 =
href=3D"mailto:alex_hillman_at_physia.com">alex_hillman_at_physia.com</A>>=20 wrote: > I do not object to mentioning of = the=20
 delete key but I do not like and > = will=20
 > not tolerate the tone. I do not see Rachel as = a such=20
 moral authority > figure <FONT =

size=3D2>> for me to accept such tone (Maybe she is but I barely = know her - I=20
 saw > her > = one time on=20
 IOUG conference and saw couple of her books). If instead of = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>> "I > remind you, the delete = key is=20
 located on your keyboard and labelled as >=20
 such" > she said something like "If you = don't like=20
 the message use the delete > key" = I=20
 > wouldn't even reply. <FONT =

size=3D2>&gt;=20
  </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; Alex Hillman</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>&gt;=20
  </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; =

<FONT=20
 size=3D2>> -----Original Message----- > Sent:=20
 Thursday, January 04, 2001 12:41 PM > To: = Multiple=20
 recipients of list ORACLE-L > = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>> > >=20
 > I must say that I totally agree with = Rachel. As a=20
 female, I found that > the = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>> email Alex send out to be very offensive. And I = definitely=20
 don't > appreciate >=20
 such comments on the list. > = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>> Every body entitled to speak whatever they want, subject = to=20
 not > physically > or=20
 emotionally harming the other person. >=20 > Like what Rachel said, DELETE keys are = always=20
 there for you for one > purpose: to = delete whatever=20
 you don't want to read! > = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>> Winnie > >=20
 > > = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>> > "Deshpande, Kirti"=20 <kirti.deshpande_at_verizon.com>@fatcity.com on <FONT=20 size=3D2>> 01/03/2001 > 07:50:50 = PM=20
 > > Please respond = to=20
 ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com > >=20
 Sent by:  root_at_fatcity.com > = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>> > To:   Multiple = recipients=20
 of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com> >=20
 cc: > > = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>> > Current Score: = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>>  Rachel : 14 >  = Alex :=20
 6 > End of 1st Period !! This is getting = very=20
 interesting at FatcityBowl... > =

</FONT><BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>&gt; Can we..can we just get along...</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>&gt;&nbsp; - Rodney King</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; =
</FONT><BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT =

size=3D2>> >=20
From:   Rachel Carmichael [SMTP:carmichr_at_hotmail.com] =

> > Sent:   Wednesday, January 03, = 2001 8:51=20
 PM > > To:     = Multiple=20
 recipients of list ORACLE-L > >=20 Subject:     RE: general doubt <FONT=20 size=3D2>> > > > From=20 www.dictionary.com: > > = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>> > insinuation: Something insinuated, especially an = artfully=20
 indirect, > often > >=20
 derogatory suggestion. > > = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>> > insinuate: To introduce or insert (oneself) by = subtle and=20
 artful > means. >=20
 > > > Based on those definitions, I = didn't=20
 insinuate anything. I was neither > > = subtle nor=20
 indirect in calling you sexist. > = >=20
 > > sexism:  Attitudes, conditions, or = behaviors=20
 that promote stereotyping > of = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>> > social roles based on gender. >=20
 > > > Telling me that I am not your = mother or=20
 wife is promoting > stereotyping, = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>> > since those are gender-based roles. = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>> > > > I told you to = use the=20
 delete key and not to insult me... no >=20 insinuation > > there. You might = consider=20
 checking a dictionary before you use words >=20
 when > > you are not sure of the=20 definitions. > > >=20
 > Consider yourself permanently blocked -- and a complaint about=20 your > > behavior >=20
 > has been lodged with the list owner. >=20
 > > > > >=20
 >From: Alex Hillman <alex_hillman_at_physia.com> = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>> > >Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com <FONT =

size=3D2>> > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L=20 <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com> > > = >Subject:=20
 RE: general doubt > > >Date: Wed, = 03 Jan 2001=20
 13:30:32 -0800 > > > = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>> > >Maybe it is enough. What is your next = insinuation? Sexist=20

it is > > >hilarious. = <FONT=20 size=3D2>> > >You should have better arguments than that. And = also you=20 can delete > my > >=20 >messages - if you use MS Outlook you can even have a rule to = delete=20 > them > >=20 >immediately. > > > = <FONT=20 size=3D2>> > >Alex Hillman > = >=20 > > > >-----Original = Message-----=20 > > >Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 = 3:46=20 PM > > >To: Multiple recipients of = list=20 ORACLE-L > > > >=20 > > > > >Yes you are entitled = to your=20 view -- but when you add to the messages >=20 on > > a > >=20 >topic then you add to the trash if you consider the topic itself = to=20 > be > > = >trash.=20 > > > > > = >As for=20 not being your wife or mother -- no, thank goodness, I'm not = <FONT=20 size=3D2>> in > > any = <FONT=20 size=3D2>> > >way or form related to you. And I find it = insulting that=20 you would > say > >=20 that > > >to me, since you would = NOT say "you=20 are not my father" to any man on > = this=20 > > >list. I find that a sexist remark and =

definitely "trashing" this > list. = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>> > > > > >As for = being or=20
 not being a school teacher... whether or not I was is <FONT =

size=3D2>> > >irrelevant... but I consider THAT a compliment = (although=20
 I can infer > that >=20
 > >you don't think it is). School teachers educate... and I = think=20
 that > > >eradicating ignorance is = a noble=20
 task. > > > > >=20
 > >From: Alex Hillman <alex_hillman_at_physia.com> = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>> > > >Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>> > > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L=20 <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com> > > >=20 >Subject: RE: general doubt > > = >=20
 >Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 12:10:42 -0800 > >=20
 > > > > > >I think that as = anybody=20
 else I am entitled to my point of view and >=20
 can > > > >express it. This is = definitely=20
 trashing and every day it becomes > =

worse.</FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; &gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;In</FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;trashing I mean to diminish the =

value of=20
 this list. Also there were > no = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>> > > >indications in the subject showing me that = I should=20
 delete the > message. >=20
 > > >Also > > > >I do = not=20
 appreciate this "I remind you, the delete key is located = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>> on > > your = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>> > > >keyboard and labelled as such". You are = not my=20
 mother or wife or > school = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>> > > >teacher (or maybe you are a school teacher = - in=20
 former life?). > > > > = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>> > > >Alex Hillman > > >=20
 > > > > >-----Original=20 Message----- > > > >Sent: = Wednesday,=20
 January 03, 2001 2:26 PM > > > = >To:=20
 Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > = > >=20
 > > > > > >=20
 > > >Alex, > > > = >=20
 > > > >"trashing this list"?  A = bit harsh=20
 and definitely inaccurate. > > > = >=20
 > > > >I remind you, the delete key is = located on=20
 your keyboard and > labelled = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>> > as > > > = >such. I suggest=20
 you use it instead of, to quote your own message, >=20
 > >"trashing > > > >this=20 list". > > > > <FONT=20 size=3D2>> > > >Rachel > = >=20
 > -- > Please see = the official=20
 ORACLE-L FAQ: <A target=3D_blank=20
 href=3D"http://www.orafaq.com">http://www.orafaq.com</A> = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>> -- > Author: Deshpande, = Kirti=20
 >   INET: = kirti.deshpande_at_verizon.com=20
 > > Fat City = Network=20
 Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) = 538-5051=20
 > San Diego,=20
 California        -- Public = Internet access=20
 / Mailing Lists >=20 =

--------------------------------------------------------------------</FON=

T>=20
 > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, = send an=20
 E-Mail message > to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com = (note=20
 EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > = the message=20
 BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L >=20
 (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You=20 may > also send the HELP command for = other=20
 information (like subscribing). > = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>> > >=20
 > > -- = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: <A target=3D_blank =

href=3D"http://www.orafaq.com">http://www.orafaq.com</A> = <FONT=20

  size=3D2>&gt; -- </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; Author: =
</FONT><BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; INET: Winnie_Liu_at_infonet.com</FONT> =

<FONT=20
 size=3D2>> > Fat City Network=20 Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) = 538-5051=20
 > San Diego,=20
 California        -- Public = Internet access=20
 / Mailing Lists >=20 =

--------------------------------------------------------------------</FON=

T>=20
 > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, = send an=20
 E-Mail message > to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com = (note=20
 EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > = the message=20
 BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L >=20
 (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You=20 may > also send the HELP command for = other=20
 information (like subscribing). > = 
 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Rocky = Welch <FONT=20
 size=3D2>Senior Consultant - Internet Services Group <FONT=20 size=3D2>Arthur Andersen 
 <FONT =

size=3D2>__________________________________________________</FONT>=20

Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! = Photos - Share=20
 your holiday photos online! <A = target=3D_blank=20
 href=3D"http://photos.yahoo.com/">http://photos.yahoo.com/</A> = <FONT=20
 size=3D2>-- Please see the official ORACLE-L = FAQ: <A=20
 target=3D_blank =
href=3D"http://www.orafaq.com">http://www.orafaq.com</A>=20 -- Author: Rocky = Welch=20
   INET: rockyw_99_at_yahoo.com Fat City Network Services    -- (858) =

538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051 San = Diego,=20
California        -- Public = Received on Fri Jan 05 2001 - 02:29:32 CST