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RE: FreeOCP

From: SHAIBAL TALUKDER <shaibal_talukder_at_yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 04:36:52 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <10702.123772@fatcity.com> 





 Come on Rachel, this comment is a little overblown, I
don't believe that some one who is a OCP DBA does not
know how to shut down a database. These are things
some one learns or should learn when they think about
being a DBA. I am sure this topics are well covered in
OCP exams. The fact is somebody likes to get certified
and some people do not. Some body like institution and
some do not. It is always a choice and everybody
should respect either stand. Exceptions are on both
the side.



S.Talukder


Sr.DBA


Convergys Corporation


Direct: (513) 748 5086


Cell:(513) 229 7422




Rachel Carmichael  wrote: My point also was that you
cannot generalize... nothing is ever black and white,
there are always shades of gray.Yes there are DBAs
with OCP who are fantastic. There are also DBAs with
OCP who don't know a thing about a database. I get
really scared when I see someone post a note "how do I
shutdown the database" and their signature like has
OCP in it.>From: "aaaa wwwwww" >Reply-To:
ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>To: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-L >Subject: RE: FreeOCP>Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000
19:25:24 -0800>>Dear Seniors>>Most of U felt bad it
seems !>>When we are generalising U shouldn't bring
case by case example>>Rao>-->>On Tue, 05 Dec 2000
16:45:22> Rachel Carmichael wrote:> >Jeff,> >>


>Forgive me for jumping in on your rant, but I didn't

see the original> >message.> >> >All -> >> >I do love
this quote from the original email:> >> >"In my humble
opinion, any OCP DBA with experience is lot better
than a >OCP> >DBA without experience or an experienced
DBA without OCP."> >> >Really? Let's see.... I've been
working as a DBA for 10+ years. I have >met> >DBAs
with OCP and experience, DBAs with experience and no
OCP and DBAs >with> >OCP and no experience.> >> >OCP
does not in and of itself confer anything. You can
pass the tests and> >never have used the products that
the tests are about. I passed the 8.0 >to> >8i upgrade
without ever having worked with RMAN, partitioned
tables,> >Advanced Queuing, local and global
partitioned indexes etc -- I hadn't> >worked with 8i
at ALL. What I *did* have were some hours spent at>


>conferences listening to people present on these

topics, and a really >good> >ability to guess on
standardized tests. I passed the 7.3 to 8.0 upgrade


>the> >same way.> >> >So I have OCP and it still does

not mean that I have experience in these> >things.> >>


>Jeff is right -- what counts is what the person

knows, not how he/she> >learned it. The best
explanation I have ever heard was from Michael Abbey>


>who said "OCP will get you in the door, but it's up

to you and your> >abilities to keep you there".> >>


>All OCP does is give upper management a warm and

fuzzy (and often >incorrect)> >feeling about the
abilities of the candidate.> >> >I don't look to see
OCP on a resume before I interview someone. I don't>


>reject the candidate if it is there, but it doesn't

get you in the door >to> >see me. Your resume does.>


>> >End of *MY* rant -- thanks Jeff :)> >> >Rachel> >>

>>From: Jeffery Stevenson > >>Reply-To:



ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com> >>To: Multiple recipients of
list ORACLE-L > >>Subject: RE: FreeOCP> >>Date: Tue,
05 Dec 2000 06:41:28 -0800> >>> >> Every person should
be judged on their own individual merits...a >veteran>


>>DBA without OCP might have a box at home (or at

work) where they take >the> >>latest and greatest and
play with all the new features to figure out how>


>>they work and see what kind of advantages they

bring. You could have a >DBA> >>with lots of years of
experience recorded and an OCP that has just been>


>>soaking up money in a big contract for a consulting

firm somewhere (and >not> >>really doing much), but
they've had lots of time to take the tests >(until>


>>they passed them all). There are too many variables

in this world to >judge> >>a situation without getting
all of the details...keeping that in mind, I> >>cannot
agree with your viewpoint that an OCP DBA with
experience is >going> >>to> >>be better than any other
DBA--every situation is different. When>


>>interviewing other DBAs, I might make initial

judgements after reviewing> >>their resume, but
(unless that resume is really, really bad) I won't


>rule> >>them out until I've had a chance to talk with

them. The DBA market is a> >>tight market, why rule
out any potentially good employee/help based on>


>>years> >>of experience or a piece of paper? None of

that can tell me exactly >what> >>kind of heart, will,
intelligence, common sense, personality, or >learning>


>>ability a person has. OCP and years of experience

have definite merits> >>when> >>trying to get HR's
attention and jacking prices in contracts, but if the>


>>person behind all that isn't really that good...>

>>> >> Sorry about the rant, but I just couldn't sit

back and listen to all> >>this> >>without saying

something...> >>> >>Jeffery Stevenson> >>Chief
Databeast Tamer> >>Medical Present Value, Inc.>




>>Austin, TX> >>> >>-----Original Message----->

>>Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 4:51 PM> >>To:

Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L> >>> >>> >>Hi
friends!> >> There is a lots of talk about Paper DBAs
on this message board. With >due> >>respect to all the
veteran DBAs without OCP and new DBAs with OCP, I


>would> >>like to make few comments from my own

personal experience (spanning 9> >>years+> >>in USA,
Europe and India)> >>> >> I have come across lots of
long time DBAs with no OCP, who frown on >OCP> >>DBAs.
Working closely with them, I noticed that these longs
really count> >>the> >>hours to bill the clients. To
my dismay, I came across 10+ years Oracle> >>DBAs>


>>who had no clue about OPS, Partitioning, Snapshots,

Stand by etc... They> >>have gained experience over
the years only because the client could not> >>find>


>>a better alternative.> >>> >> At the same time, in

the interviews and at work, I come across lots of>


>>new> >>OCP DBAs who can do the job, but need lots

support and help from the >other> >>DBAs. (It is sort
of baby sitting).> >>> >> I was a DBA without OCP for
long time and I had no problem in finding> >>jobs>


>>without OCP. After I started preparing for OCP, I

came to know of so >many> >>things that I did not know
before. In my humble opinion, any OCP DBA >with>


>>experience is lot better than a OCP DBA without

experience or an> >>experienced> >>DBA without OCP.>


>>> >> OCP helped me as a DBA to understand things

that I did not know >before.> >>It> >>took lots of
time, confidence and enthusiasm to be a OCP DBA and
change >my> >>self in the process.> >>> >> Without
OCP, I would have been a Pumpkin DBA, doing clueless
things in >a> >>random and unilateral way. Let's face
it... OCP or No OCP is a matter of> >>choice. But it
helps to be OCP than be left-out and looking at SOUR>


>>GRAPES!!!> >>> >>Rama> >>OCP DBA with experience!>

>>> >>> >>--> >>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:

http://www.orafaq.com> >>--> >>Author: Rama Malladi>


>> INET: rmalladi_at_inteliant.com> >>> >>Fat City

Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858)
538-5051> >>San Diego, California -- Public Internet
access / Mailing Lists>


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>>--> >>Author: Jeffery Stevenson> >> INET:

jeff_at_mpv.com> >>> >>Fat City Network Services -- (858)
538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051> >>San Diego, California
-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists>


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>_____________________________________________________________________________________>

>Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :

>http://explorer.msn.com> >> >--> >Please see the

official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com> >-->


>Author: Rachel Carmichael> > INET:



carmichr_at_hotmail.com> >> >Fat City Network Services --
(858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051> >San Diego,
California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists>


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may> >also send the HELP command for other information
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Public Internet access / Mailing

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CarmichaelINET: carmichr_at_hotmail.comFat City Network
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Received on Wed Dec 06 2000 - 06:36:52 CST












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