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Home -> Community -> Mailing Lists -> Oracle-L -> RE: Re: max parallel query
Ron
I think you are correct. However, most network administrators might not understand Matthew's suggestion of "gigabit + jumbo frames". In fact, I'm not sure every system vendor has gigabit network cards available, and even if they do, the price may be an issue.
Dennis Williams
DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
dwilliams_at_lifetouch.com
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 2:05 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
To counter that...
If our network admin had our NAS traffic on the same backbone as our
internet/itranet traffic, they
would very quickly be looking for employment elsewhere...
Ron Thomas
Hypercom, Inc
rthomas_at_hypercom.com
Each new user of a new system uncovers a new class of bugs. -- Kernighan
DGoulet_at_vicr.com
Sent by: To:
ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
ml-errors_at_fatcity cc:
.com Subject: RE: Re: max
parallel query
09/19/2003 11:49
AM
Please respond to
ORACLE-L
Matt,
Question: What else do you have running on your Fiber Channel? Answer: Nothing
Question: What do you have running on your TCP/IP network? Answer: Everything.
For this one can see that a SAN's fiber channel is dedicated to
handling data from one
server to it's storage. Sure you can attach part of your SAN to the network
to act as a NAS file
system, but the SAN switch handles that separately from the servers so that
one does not get in the
way of the other. Therefore when some lummox decides to download that 1GB
MPG file from the
internet, his traffic does not get in the way of your database working with
it's files. "Divide &
Conquer" still has it's place.
Dick Goulet
Senior Oracle DBA
Oracle Certified 8i DBA
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 1:35 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
The real differences between NAS and SAN is how data is accessed - NAS is file-based ("open this file, read that file, lock this other file") while SAN, like direct-attached, is block based ("read block 45345 from disk 7, write block 2442 from disk 3"). SAN runs over Fibre Channel, which is a network protocol that sits under SCSI, while NAS uses NFS (or CIFS, but for Oracle just NFS) over TCP/IP to talk to the storage.
>From a pricing standpoint, its generally true that NAS is cheaper than SAN,
though I can show you a million-dollar NAS box and a 10k SAN. Ditto with
performance - while SAN is often faster than NAS, your mileage can vary
wildly. Most of the perceived performance gap between SAN and NAS is due to
the fact that people have lower standards for their networks than they do
their SANs. I've seen people/organizations who would never ever consider
using an off-brand Fibre Channel card cheerfully put their
performance-sensitive NAS traffic over a $50 Gigabit ethernet card.
Intelligent design and careful tuning (plus sizing your storage properly)
for your NAS will yield comparable performance to a SAN.
Beyond that, management of NAS vs. SAN is totally different, though I can't get into that in detail here. Finally, the world just changed again with the introduction of iSCSI - SCSI over IP. It's block-based access over traditional IP networks...very exciting stuff.
Thanks,
Matt
-- Matthew Zito GridApp Systems Email: mzito_at_gridapp.com Cell: 646-220-3551 Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359 http://www.gridapp.comReceived on Fri Sep 19 2003 - 14:24:52 CDT
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ml-errors_at_fatcity.com [mailto:ml-errors_at_fatcity.com] On
> Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS
> Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 11:30 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: Re: max parallel query
>
>
> Ryan
> NetApp is in another class of devices labeled NAS for
> Network Attached Storage. Because its connection with your
> server runs over a network connection, the performance is
> very much dependent on the speed and configuration of the
> network connection.
> As has been explained to me, and I very much stand ready
> to be corrected by others more knowledgeable than myself,
> there are 3 main classes of storage devices today. They are
> NAS, Direct-attached, and SAN. My understanding is that NAS
> tend to be the cheapest and lowest-performance and SAN are
> the most expensive and highest-performance. But that is just
> a blanket statement and probably doesn't hold in many
> specific situations.
> My personal experience with NetApp is dependent on our
> configuration and I can't claim that the configuration is
> perfect. I found the NetApp device to work really well for
> providing large amounts of storage at a low cost. However, I
> also discovered that it was really easy to overload the
> connection. Again, maybe you have a better network
> connection, I'm just judging by my experience.
> A standard recommendation for DBAs is to spread I/O among
> as many devices as possible. I found the performance of our
> NetApp to be much more acceptable if I could move some high
> I/O parts of the database to other devices. Redo logs would
> be a good example of something you might consider putting on
> any direct-attached disks you have available to you. That
> would relieve some of the contention over your network connection.
>
> Dennis Williams
> DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
> Lifetouch, Inc.
> dwilliams_at_lifetouch.com
>
>
-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Matthew Zito INET: mzito_at_gridapp.com Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services --------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Goulet, Dick INET: DGoulet_at_vicr.com Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services --------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ron Thomas INET: rthomas_at_hypercom.com Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services --------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: DWILLIAMS_at_LIFETOUCH.COM Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services --------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
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