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Home -> Community -> Mailing Lists -> Oracle-L -> Re: RE: RE: thanks all/OCP
Hello,
I am quite pleasantly surprised that
you agree with me on the OCP issue.
But bottom line is
"My
point is that there is a lot about the job market that isn't
fair."
and the worst part is we are 'partners in crime'
by 'biting Oracle's bait' :(
Isnt there someway of 'conveying' (pushing the view!) to the HR guy that it is HE who needs to get the training on "HOW to look for an Oracle dba" :)
Cyril
On Tue, 27 May 2003 DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote :
>Cyril - I'm sitting here on a holiday afternoon studying for my
>last OCP
>exam, networking, and I haven't used most of this material and
>don't expect
>to (the other exams weren't that way). So your note was quite
>encouraging --
>NOT!
> I agree with you that if all you have is an OCP and no
>experience, most
>interviewers won't be very impressed. I should certainly hope
>that most
>hiring organizations could see deeper than that. I also agree
>that this has
>been a great money-maker for Oracle Education. As to getting more
>money?
>Well I think the market is tight all over.
> I don't know how the hiring process is in the U.K., but in
>the U.S. there
>are two winnowing stages before you sit down for that
>all-important
>technical interview (unless you have a contact with the hiring
>manager).
>First, you are a resume. A company posts a job and solicits
>resumes.
>Generally a non-technical human resource person must scan a
>couple hundred
>resumes and extract the 5-6 best-looking resumes. If the hiring
>manager
>included the OCP, even optionally, chances of your resume making
>it from the
>large pile to the small pile are much better. Next, the H.R.
>person will
>call those selected people to make sure they are a real person
>and clarify
>any issues he had with your resume. Then he/she will arrange
>interviews with
>the top 3 candidates. Now you get to perform in a stimulating
>manner,
>dazzling them with your incredible Oracle knowledge and how you
>know Larry
>Ellison personally, etc.
> It's kind of like having a college degree. Some of the best
>DBAs don't
>have a college degree. Just last week I was chatting with a
>coworker and was
>surprised that he didn't have a college degree. But when someone
>is just
>looking at two resumes, they may well pick one just because it
>has a college
>degree. That doesn't mean that the person without a college
>degree won't get
>a job. It might just mean they have to pursue the job search a
>little longer
>and harder. Is it fair? No. A close friend of mine who is a near
>genius was
>doing a job search at the same time as I. I got a lot more
>interviews and
>offers than he despite being a lot stupider. The only thing that
>made sense
>was that he didn't grow up speaking English, but had to learn it
>later.
>Unfortunately some people equate poor English skills with
>intelligence. My
>point is that there is a lot about the job market that isn't
>fair. I just
>think there are situations where the OCP may be helpful.
>
>Dennis Williams
>DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
>Lifetouch, Inc.
>dwilliams_at_lifetouch.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 12:27 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>Cyril,
>
>One positive point...
>
>It force you to study all upgrade material and read through
>different aspect
>
>of oracle which we normally not read that thoroughly. It always
>helped me to
>
>do ocp upgrade exam to read more of new features else I was not
>reading it.
>however, it is not a replacement of my experience of 15 years
>with
>oracle(since ver 4 DOS and ver 5(unix)
>
>Regards
>Rafiq
>
>
>
>Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
>Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 19:16:19 -0800
>
>Hello,
>
>I do hope the ocp 'looks well' on ur resume!
>and 'goes down well' with interviewers !
>
>I personally think OCP has lost credibility for
>the following reasons
>
>a. People are known to get through using the
> 'jack pot method' (ie close ur eyes and pray and click
>the
>option!)
>
>b. People are known to sms the answers!!!
>
>c. Finally everyone in the industry seems to know
> that if not the 1st attempt atleast by the 3rd attempt
> people 'have to get through'
>
>Stuff like the above have made interviewers all over
>wary of "OCP candidates" who mouth a lot of jargon
>without the necessary experience.
>
>This creates a unique problem where a candidate
>is likely to have a 'false sense of confidence'
>just because he 'read something somewhere'
>and this makes it difficult for the interviewer to
>'imagine the candidate in his team working on workarounds ;)'
>and difficult for the candidate to 'learn'
>
>So the interviewer is likely to take the 'safe option'
>of hiring a guy who has 'genuinely worked 10%' at 10% pay
>rather than hire a guy who has 'genuinely worked 10%'
>done OCP (10i!hahaha) and expects to be paid 100%
>and has airs :(
>
>All the best
>
>Cyril
>
>PS: By the way ....Oracle claims that OCPs get paid more...
> I have not seen such a thing...if 'someone around here'
>has
> 'seen such a thing' well....good...:)
>
> IMHO OCP is one good money making idea Oracle Education
> developed.......why didnt I think of it earlier :(
>
>On Mon, 26 May 2003 DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote :
> >Congratulations! Well, was it as hard as you thought it was
>going
> >to be?
> >
> >Dennis Williams
> >DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
> >Lifetouch, Inc.
> >dwilliams_at_lifetouch.com
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 5:37 PM
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> >Hello list
> >thanks to you all and with the almighty's blessings i passed
>my
> >1ZO-031 9i
> >dba fundamentals 1 today.
> >Thanks for all the help and advice
> >...............
> >
> >--
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>Author: Cyril Thankappan
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>Author: M Rafiq
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>Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
> INET: DWILLIAMS_at_LIFETOUCH.COM
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-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Cyril Thankappan INET: cyril_thank_at_rediffmail.com Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services --------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).Received on Tue May 27 2003 - 03:09:53 CDT
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