Re: Re:RE: Oracle and Tru64

I had seen Ultrix only at the institute where I was learning computers. I agree -- nobody should have bought Ultrix. But to put Tru64 on Alpha in the same class as Ultrix is *big* mistake.
Tru64 and Alpha is a winning combination -- on par with HPUX on PA-RISC, it not better. The problem was that the Alpha processor was priced so high, few people would buy it and, therefore, Digital could never achieve economies of scale.

Hemant K Chitale

• Original Message ----- To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com> Sent: Wednesday, 05 June, 2002 2:09 AM

> Peter,
>
> Please allow me to disagree. I came from the USAF with a very deep
love for
> DEC hardware and software (VAX/VMS), only to be VERY disappointed by them
when I
> was presented with DEC Ultrix. Their straying into the Unix world was a
real
> nightmare. First off their sales folks over sold the capabilities of the
> 5000/240 workstation. A database server it was not. Ultrix was a failure
right
> out of the gate. That monster combination was a guarantee that I would
get a
> page every night that it was here and the server a re-boot. It finally
took me
> three years to get a Ultrix tech to admit that they had not implemented a
> TCP_KEEP_ALIVE capability into Ultrix and that I would never see it. At
that
> time the only path was to upgrade to an Alpha with OSF-1 which was
crashing on a
> daily basis. Oracle back then recommended a cold backup of the database
twice a
> day. One of the soccer dads whose's daughter was on the same team as mine
was a
> DEC/Compaq employee. His recommendation was to stay away from OSF at all
costs.
> He was one of the lucky ones when Compaq sold off the CASE tools
operation. Oh
> how I would have loved moving back onto a VAX, but DEC was not interested
in
> that platform any more and HP's 9000 platform was not only cheaper to
acquire
> and support, but faster and more capable as well. We benchmarked a DEC
Ultrix
> box specifically tailored by DEC to database work against an HP9000 that
'just
> happen to between owners'. The DEC was a multi processor unit, stuffed
with
> every bite of RAM it could hold, multi scsi ports with load balancing on
their
> (at that time) best disk system and a custom Oracle install with a highly
tuned
> (by DEC engineers) Ultrix kernel. We passed then a dmp file with 1
million rows
> of data for two tables and 4 SQL scripts to run against the data. Took
them all
> day to get the results. Did the same test with the HP that had minimal
RAM, one
> scsi port and only the internal drives and a default Oracle install and
only
> that tweaking of the HP kernel in Oracle's install manual. Same test ran
in 4.5
> hours hands down. I left DEC behind at that time, never to return. As
of
> today, I love the HP's I have to work with. I do not believe them to be
> outclassed anywhere and that they do outclass all in terms of reliability
and
> dependability. I must admit to really enjoying a server platform that
does it's
> job day in and day out for months or years without so much as a burp. I'm
sure
> that part of that are three very good SA's, but the hardware/OS speaks for
> itself as well.
>
> I did not shed one tear when DEC fell to Compaq, and will not now that
> Compaq is falling to HP. I am sure that the good of DEC/Compaq will find
it's
> way into HP-UX as well as the HP9000 series. So we've only good things to
look
> forward to.
>
> Dick Goulet
>
> ____________________Reply Separator____________________
> Author: Peter Barnett <regdba_at_yahoo.com>
> Date: 6/4/2002 8:08 AM
>
> It's a shame that Digital had such good computer
> scientists and such lousy marketing. Digital Unix and
> the AlphaServer were the most stable Unix boxes in the
> world. Compaq never did understand the gem it
> purchased and HP will never admit that their current
> generation of hardware was outclassed by Digital 10
> years ago.
>
> All good runs must come to an end. It is just too bad
> that the end is an execution by technical nitwits.
>
>
> --- DENNIS WILLIAMS <DWILLIAMS_at_LIFETOUCH.COM> wrote:
> > Stephane, Hemant
> > Below is the official word that I pulled off HP's
> > website. It is
> > straight PR material, so read between the words as
> > you choose. As I recall,
> > Compaq had already decided not to build the
> > next-generation Alpha chip
> > before the merger arose. If you are interested, I
> > would suggest that you
> > attend the HP roadshow when it comes to a city near
> > you and ask them the
> > hard questions yourself. Having worked for a
> > computer manufacturer in the
> > past, I can assure you that the manufacturer would
> > appreciate it if you
> > bought the last system to come off the production
> > line, then never called
> > them for support. My company plans to continue
> > operating our Tru64 systems
> > for several years to come, and they have provided
> > wonderful service. But
> > we're purchasing new Sun systems.
> >
> > "In this session, an HP Executive will highlight the
> > important current and
> > future role HP's business critical and high
> > performance AlphaServer(tm)
> > products play. We will also discuss the latest
> > advancements across the hp
> > AlphaServer product family, the latest on the future
> > ItaniumR processor
> > family, and provide an update on the related
> > operating systems strategy. In
> > particular, we will share the updated OpenVMS(tm)
> > roadmap for continued
> > development and support on the AlphaServer platform
> > as well as a review of
> > the progress to date for porting OpenVMS to
> > ItaniumR-based systems.
> > Discussion will also include the most
> > up-to-the-minute plans for integrating
> > Tru64(tm) UNIXR into HP-UX on the ItaniumR
> > architecture and the continued
> > development and support of Tru64 UNIX on the
> > AlphaServer platform."
> >
> > Dennis Williams
> > DBA
> > Lifetouch, Inc.
> > dwilliams_at_lifetouch.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 9:53 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> >
> > I'd never heard that Oracle has stopped
> > or is stopping support for Tru64.
> > We have more than 35 production databases
> > on Tru64 and have no intention of moving
> > out of Alpha-Tru64 in a hurry. We're even
> > looking at upgrading a mission critical
> > 8iOPS cluster on Tru64 to 9iRAC on Tru64.
> >
> > Hemant K Chitale
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
> > <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, 02 June, 2002 9:28 PM
> >
> >
> > > Stephane Faroult wrote:
> > >
> > > > ...Historically, Oracle was a port to
> > > > Digital (remember this brand?)
> > >
> > > Interesting. I'm reading this list because of a
> > recent
> > > project to retire the Digital-Alpha workstations.
> > > The main reason that these machines must be
> > de-commissioned is
> > > because Oracle stopped supporting Tru64.
> > > (Although it needs to be done EVENTUALLY, since
> > Alpha
> > > is basicly dead anyway.)
> > >
> > > The Alphas were bought to retire the VMS from 4-7
> > years ago!
> > >
> > > Talk about unfortunate planning!
> > > --
> > > Aaron Birenboim | The top three attributes of a
> > good programmer:
> > > Albuquerque, NM | Laziness, Impatience, and
> > Hubris
> > > aaron_at_boim.com |
> > > boim.com/~aaron | -- Randall Schwartz, author
> > of perl references
> > > --
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> > > Author: Aaron Birenboim
> > > INET: aaron_at_boim.com
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> > Author: Hemant K Chitale
> > INET: hkchital_at_singnet.com.sg
> >
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>
> =====
> Pete Barnett
> Lead Database Administrator
> The Regence Group
> pnbarne_at_regence.com
>
> __________________________________________________
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-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Hemant K Chitale
  INET: hkchital_at_singnet.com.sg

Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
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