RE: Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

VMS uses logicals as much as Unix uses environment variables. I use vms logicals and unix env variables in my db create scripts. VMS logicals also work for init.ora params (eg. control_files) whereas in Unix, you must spell it out.

gene
*used vms b4 dos was around :)*

>>> Stephen_Karniotis_at_compuware.com 05/23/02 12:33PM >>> I can add to Jesse's comments. VMS has always been the bastard of Oracle Platforms even though it was written for VMS initially. Remember that Larry first wrote Oracle on the VMS platform.

The installation process is actually very clean as compared to many other environments. Yes, it does require additional knowledge of how logicals and symbols function, and yes OFA does not "truly" exist within the spectrum as it does on Unix. However, OFA does exist within the OpenVMS environment and is the responsibility of the DBA to exercise the implementation of it. Thus, only war-torn DBAs understand the VMS environment of Oracle and have a relatively easy time implementing on this platform.

As far as logicals within the database, Jesse is correct in that Oracle is not very friendly with them if you want datafiles to use logicals. However, if you define the logicals as "terminal, rooted" logicals, Oracle does not translate them. In fact, this is the proper way to define data files versus using the device name. What happens if you have to move the device from DSA10 to DSA100, but the disk is still the same? It is simply moving to another controller. You are screwed if you use the physical device name. If you use logicals, all works well.

Jesse is right. VMS is the strongest and most robust platform Oracle runs on. If not, then why did Oracle buy RDB and use Compaq (sorry DEC) for the clustering technology for 9i RAC? Contradict that one and you should open up your own database company.

Enough ranting. Become familiar with Open VMS and all will be well.

Thank You

Stephen P. Karniotis
Product Architect
Compuware Corporation

Direct:	(248) 865-4350
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Email:	Stephen.Karniotis_at_Compuware.com 
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 -----Original Message-----
Sent:	Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:33 AM
To:	Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:	Oracle and OpenVMS (was: Rename Column in 9iR2)

As a side note, please please please become familiar with OpenVMS and more importantly Oracle on OpenVMS before tackling this. At least as far up as 8i, Oracle has really done themselves a disservice by bastardizing their own install on OpenVMS. There is no OFA on OpenVMS. It is VERY difficult to create and maintain a database without using Oracle's horrid scripts. Oracle refuses to recognize VMS logicals in the DB (although you can fool it). And do NOT use OpenVMS if you need MTS because it simply does not work, even in 9i (see the Midrange forum on MetaClink).

I'm saying this and I'm a huge fan of VMS. I've been working with it since v4.7 and haven't seen an OS that compares. HOWEVER, for some unknown reason, companies that produce software on multiple platforms tend to screw up their VMS installs. I have no idea why. I've been working in Unix for four or five years now and just don't understand why people in the Unix/Winders world make OpenVMS so difficult! It's EASY!

</soapbox>

VMS (whoops..."OpenVMS") gets a bad rap because of poor marketing, and a poor understanding of how VMS works by the people that develop on it and/or manage the systems. Hell, my OpenVMS box here that's running 4 Oracle 8.0.5 instances has had 5 minutes of down time in the past 716 days. And that downtime was due to a network failure. Five "9"s, baby, and then some!

Woah...once again, DBA need beer.

Enjoy! :)

Rich Jesse                           System/Database Administrator
Rich.Jesse_at_qtiworld.com              Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ron Rogers [mailto:RROGERS_at_galottery.org]
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 10:04 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: Rename Column in 9iR2
>
>
> Hemant,
> The price I am referring to is the cost involved with moving from a
> Dell server on Novell to a Compaq OpenVMS server. There are a lot of
> company sided issues that have to be addressed and cases made for the
> move. In this case the software is not an issues as you stated, the
> issues revolve around the hardware and developmental considerations. I
> would be more that happy to move to the latest and greatest "solid"
> platform/database combination. It would allow us to create
> and implement
> browser based applications rather easily and would allow us to use the
> 9iAS Suite of products.
> For now all I can do is make requests for item to be included in the
> budget as we move "forward, backwards, sideways, dance on circles".
> Ron
> ROR mª¿ªm

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