RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?

John,....oops JON,

Sounds like someone

1. Woke up on the wrong side of their UNIX box and
2. Has no tolerance for anything not similar to their own way of thinking.

I think most of us will agree that UNIX is heads a shoulders a better platform for MOST systems that run apps like Oracle, however, Windows does have its place and time. And not everyone who runs Oracle on NT/2k are idiots. We probably didn't make the OS choice, but are determined to make the best of the situation. And if you can get good reliablilty out of Oracle on NT, I would have to say you are a pretty good DBA/SysAd!!!

Chuck Speaks, MCSE
Database Administrator
Lithonia Lighting
770-922-9000 x3450
http://www.lithonia.com

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 12:41 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

"Now I'm confused John - Is it a 2nd or 3rd rate O/S? :)"

The name is Jon. While Douglas Adams may have thought it to be 2nd rate, I believe it to be 3rd rate. Too much to handle?

"you can't have written that on a Windoze box - it would have corrected it for you ! :)"

Are you a genius or something? thanks for pointing that out. Thats correct, it was written w/ a text based mua on a sun machine, which doesnt attempt to correct mistakes, thus not creating its own ;) I'm sure you'll enjoy the new "Smarttag" features from Microsoft. Like having your information force fed to you? Doesnt look like you have a problem swallowing what microsoft has to say fatty :)

"NOW - what about all those start-up companies that don't have oodles of venture capital?"

Couldn't read about Linux on one of your MSDN sites? It may not be the best, but it certianly provides an environment far better than windows... that is if the startup needed it. If you remember, I dont think that Unix boxen are for everyone and every situation... just the mission critical ones (and I certianly wouldnt use Linux in a mission critical environment, but if you plan on big things in the future, you can atleast develope on a unix platform now :)

"LEAVE THE THING ALONE - and let it do it's job."

Ha ha. You go out and purchase some overpriced intel quad xeon machine to run your windows nt server on... and you arent even allowed to touch it ;) Way to go!

"You know it make me laugh how a whole lot of people out there moan about point and click technology - YET the business that I am in - third party GUI tools for databases - is BOOMING! So what is it? DBA's don't like a point & click O/S - but one to help them with their job, is OK..."

No doubt in my mind that the vast majority of DBA's out there are also block headed 3rd rate "I got my oracle certification" idiots also, which I have no doubt that you are one. As for your comment "it make me laugh" all I can say to that is "tarzan know how use point and click. Us go now Jane." My job may have been a tad bit more difficult to move into, but I know 20x what the average point and click "pioneer" does. Some of us are eager beavers to gain knowledge and do our jobs to the best of our ability, and some of us are using certificates/gui's to cover up for our lack of knowledge and general inability to learn :)

Thanks,
jon

"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them into it in the first place."

• Douglas Adams

"If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done."

• Scott Adams

On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Mark Leith wrote:

> "I dont like to sit on my ass as others pass 3rd rate
> information about a 3rd rate os on to others..."
>
> "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
> lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the
> fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them
into
> it in the first place."
>
> Now I'm confused John - Is it a 2nd or 3rd rate O/S? :)
>
> By the way - that was the biggest damn paragraph I have seen in my life -
> you can't have written that on a Windoze box - it would have corrected it
> for you ! :)
>
> NOW - what about all those start-up companies that don't have oodles of
> venture capital? Should they go out and purchase a Sun server at vast
> expense compared to a few well set up Win2K boxes - and leave themselves
in
> the shit with their bank balance? I Don't think so.. Can they still run
> their business proactively, and continue to grow and make money? Sure they
> can.. Just because they don't have a UNIX box sitting in the middle of
their
> small enterprise world - does not mean that their business is going to
fail?
> If you ask me - old Bill has done the small business world a favour!! He
has
> allowed the small business to run corporate applications and databases on
a
> more affordable platform. Maybe it isn't as stable - and you may get some
> down time - but I'm sure a small business is NOT going to be loosing
?20,000
> an hour because of system downtime.
>
> What a lot of you guys on here have to remember is that not every company
> has money printed for them, people have to START somewhere. The bottom
line
> has already been stated - you CAN make an NT/2000 box stable enough to run
> *most* of the time - you just have to know how to wine, dine, and treat it
> well. If this is what you want to achieve, don't go installing new crap on
> your database server every week. LEAVE THE THING ALONE - and let it do
it's
> job.
>
> You know it make me laugh how a whole lot of people out there moan about
> point and click technology - YET the business that I am in - third party
GUI
> tools for databases - is BOOMING! So what is it? DBA's don't like a point
&
> click O/S - but one to help them with their job, is OK...
>
> Just my 50p :)
>
> Mark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 02:10
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Apparently you dont have any respect for the late Douglas Adams. Tisk
> Tisk! I'm certianly not saying that NT isnt good for what it was designed
> to do... workstation/end user platforms. Its a nice way for everyone to
> not have to think and enjoy pointing and clicking all day. Does windows
> have the scalability/reliability needed in for a datawarehouse or heavy
> transaction processing environment? Nope, but then again you probably
> wouldnt know that cause its out side of the scope of windows :) I'm not
> here to debate who is smarter than who, I just hate the environment that
> windows breeds. I'm not a person person. I like to work with computers,
> and when I have some twit crawling up my ass cause he thinks he knows the
> ins and outs of networking / data managment / io / resource management
> cause he pointed and clicked his way into some certificate, it just pisses
> me off. If all you want to do is set up an exchange server at home fine,
> but dont assume that you know EVERYTHING about smtp/mail servers/mua and
> the universe because you pointed and clicked till your fingers were worn
> down to the nubs setting up your backoffice suite of products 90% of which
> you will never use and 95% of the products that you actually do use, you
> wont understand. Windows is a breeding ground for morons. IF (I emphasize
> IF) a knowledgeable individual sets up a windows machine, it can and often
> does what it says it can do. Windows doesnt breed and environment that you
> HAVE to learn what you're doing. Microsoft says that it wants everything
> to be easy to set up and working together which when it happens its a good
> thing (although it happens few and far between). The problem is that
> through years of never having to learn a thing you end up not knowing
> anything. On a unix machine you HAVE to know what you're doing, what you
> need to set up and what its specific job is. I have to learn how the parts
> of the system work together, how the different systems interact, and how
> everything fits into the whole. Because I know what everything is doing,
> and how it behaves I can walk up to a windows machine and fix the problem.
> Windows is easy to use, easy to set up, and IS useful for the day to day
> things of the average end user. When I walk into a data center at sun, or
> TI, or nokia, or ericson, or eds, or any fab plant I see rows and rows of
> sun / hp boxes doing a whole range of high availability services. When I
> walk into broadwing or aperian or some other co-loc place that hosts a
> bunch of .com's and see rows of way over priced/powered dell servers
> hosting the 50 hits a day that averagestartup.com is getting then I think
> "fine... what has the world lost if that machine goes down? Do you think
> that this place really was bright enough to hire a knowledgeable person to
> make the decisions in the first place. I mean come on they're whole
> company plan is based around <insert crappy idea here>." Its not a
> coincidence that there are rows of 6500/5500's and e10k's doing the
> important work and slews of relatively cheap windows machines doing the
> grunt labor that isnt what fuels the business... and its not cause sun has
> a great marketing/sales department either (most of those guys dont know
> their head from their ass). The world is full of generalizations so here's
> mine: Windows is good for what it does. The average person doesnt have to
> learn much/anything to use it. It sucks at what it doesnt do, and it
> doesnt do high availability. As for the quote, its not mine, I just found
> it amusing. I dont constantly complain about windows because I dont use
> it, but then again, I dont like to sit on my ass as others pass 3rd rate
> information about a 3rd rate os on to others... all that breeds is some
> more 3rd rate people ;) All I'm doing is protecting my sanity/nerves by
> having a few less morons out there, but as I can see its already too late
> for some :)
>
> Thanks,
> jon
>
>
> "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
> lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the
> fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them
into
> it in the first place."
>
> -- Douglas Adams
>
> "If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you
> how it's done."
>
> -- Scott Adams
>
> ---trim---
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Mark Leith
> INET: mark_at_cool-tools.co.uk
>
> Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Jon Allen
  INET: jon_at_slurpee.org

Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California        -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
--------------------------------------------------------------------
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Speaks, Chuck W.
  INET: CSpeaks_at_Lithonia.com

Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California        -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
--------------------------------------------------------------------
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).