If you would just change your backup script to dynamically create the backup
from the dictionary, you will have obsoleted the dba position!
>From: Cyril Thankappan <cyril_thank_at_india.com>
>Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
>Subject: Re:RE: WILL YOU GIVE PROGRAMMERS DBA ACCOUNT IF WE SAID YES?
>Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 12:36:09 -0800
>
>Hi!
>
>Sorry if I am adding too many 'opinions'!
>
>At our site, DBAs used to create database objects
>because tablespace creation was DBA's responsibilty
>and tablespace was created by DBA because backup
>was DBA's responsibility and backup was done by
>DBAs because restoration and recovery was DBAs
>responsibility.....
>
>
>But I am planning to put everything on its head....
>by allowing object creation and tablespace
>creation to be done by programmers with
>information being passed to DBAs
>so DBA can accordingly plan/arrange for backup.
>
>Can someone (experienced person!) pls suggest
>as to what are the likely problems to be faced
>in such a set up?
>
>Kindly note this will be the suggested sequence
>
>a. the tablespace creation
>will be given as request to DBA
>
>b. After the tablespace is created by DBA
>he will include it in his backup scripts.
>
>c. after the steps a and b the programmer
>can go on merrily creating the objects
>in which ever tablespace he chooses..
>and the DBAs' expertise lies in continously
>monitoring to anticipate problems and take
>corretive action
>
>Howzzat?
>
>
>Thanks
>
>PS: On 2nd thoughts should I patent the above idea!!!!!!
>But more seriously... some of the advice and help
>I have received here is very precious to me..
>
>
>
>
>------Original Message------
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com>
>Sent: July 31, 2000 3:16:27 PM GMT
>
>
>To ALL,
>
>Now that I've returned from a restful vacation. Cultivating/mentoring good
>developers is an art that I cannot claim to have mastered, but one that is
>imperative to a stable and productive environment. Having good and
>responsive
>developers is true heaven on earth. Regrettably I have a number of good
>and
>responsive tenants and some real dirt bags as well. The answer here is to
>monitor your DB on some regular basis, put as much self correction in place
>as
>possible, be proactive, and learn what you can about the apps. Namely be a
>good
>DBA and a fair developer at the same time. OH, BTW: one easy way to not
>have
>space problems is to get reasonable space estimates up front and then add
>about
>50% to that. It's hard, but essential. And to the original question, NO
>WAY, NO
>HOW.
>
>Dick Goulet
>Senior Oracle DBA
>Vicor Corporation
>____________________Reply Separator____________________
>Author: Kimberly.smith_at_gmd.fujitsu.com
>Date: 7/27/00 8:22 AM
>
>Actually at our site the developers are the first line of contact as
>well. They rarely have to call me. I used to be on a site that no
>matter what went wrong they always blamed the database. Sometimes
>they would not even be accessing the database and they would still
>blame it. That is the difference between working with well trained
>and experienced developers as opposed to those who are not so well
>trained. By the time I left the other site I had some of them actually
>checking their code first. Its a hard battle but one I think is
>worth going though at least once in your career so that you can
>appreciate this environment so much more. But I still don't give
>developers DBA...
>
>-----Original Message-----
>Elkins
>Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 6:24 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>Larry,
>
>And some landlords let their properties deteriorate so badly that they are
>uninhabitable ;-) Sorry, I couldn't resist since the analogy presented such
>a sitting duck target. I am *not* taking potshots at DBA's (FWIW, I used to
>be one), though I have run into a *couple* that might be called
>"slumlords",
>just as we have all run into some/many/all developers who are horrible
>"tenants".
>
>With regards to your comment on getting calls in the middle of the night,
>I've been involved with a handful of sites where the lead *developer*
>responsible for an application is the first contact. The thinking there was
>that if an error occurred, it was probably due to an application issue and
>the lead developer was better equipped at trouble-shooting the problem (the
>DBA's were typically overworked and had no time to learn about the
>individual apps). There was one site, though, were 99.9% of the failures
>were due to insufficient space issues (the DBA was *very* stingy about
>allocating space). The only problem was that he never monitored or trended
>space usage to know when to allocate more (and I kid you not, his response
>was "Why should I monitor space usage since we will find out when something
>fails. We will take care of it then". His manager backed him on this.
>Uggh!). After I received numerous 3:00 AM calls over a few months, all due
>to insufficient space, the *DBA* became the first contact for any problems.
>After a while, space problems never cropped up. Imagine that ;-).
>
>I have had the good fortune to work with a number of great DBA's over the
>years. I am working with some right now. It's a good thing when the
>barriers
>are broken down and the development, DBA, and systems staff all work as a
>team. And the DBA staff does not have to give in to outrageous requests for
>the groups to get along and work well together. The ones I'm working with
>right now are pretty tough and tight; but, they are also very responsive
>and
>helpful. Everyone's roles are very well defined, everyone understands, and
>no one complains. A very enjoyable and productive environment.
>
>I've gone one too long. I hope everyone has a good week. Oh yeah, in
>response to the original question in this thread, no way!
>
>Regards,
>
>Larry G. Elkins
>The Elkins Organization Inc.
>elkinsl_at_flash.net
>214.954.1781
>
>An analogy might be tenant / landlord. Developers "occupy" the
>database, but the DBA "owns" it. Some tenants will take care of
>the place and treat it as well as if they owned it; others will
>do whatever they like for the short haul and if something breaks
>due to neglect, hey that's the landlord's problem, let him/her
>come fix it. As if we have a two-second fix for everything.
>
>
>Larry Holder
>Senior Systems Analyst, Oracle Database Administrator
>The University of Tennessee at Martin Computer Center
>lholder_at_utm.edu (901) 587-7890 www.utm.edu/~lholder
>Saved by grace <>< Romans 8:38-39
>
>--
>Author: Larry G. Elkins
>INET: elkinsl_at_flash.net
>
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>Author:
>INET: Kimberly.smith_at_gmd.fujitsu.com
>
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>Author:
>INET: dgoulet_at_vicr.com
>
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>--
>Author: Cyril Thankappan
> INET: cyril_thank_at_india.com
>
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Received on Wed Aug 02 2000 - 18:19:56 CDT
